A question regarding the wisdom of fighting fire with fire: In the “post-rational” clip below, Rachel Maddow exposes the abject ignorance of Hillary delegate turned McCain supporter Debra Bartoshevich, who evidently believes McCain does not support overturning Roe v. Wade.

Why does she think this? Because McCain has flip-flopped on the issue—Bartoshevich cited a 1999 quote in which McCain said he didn’t want to overturn it. As with all of McCain’s “mavericky” stances, this one was jettisoned to curry favor with the GOP base. Bartoshevich is either too dumb to keep up or is being disingenuous, neither of which puts her in a good light.

Now, McCain is using Bartoshevich in an ad, so why can’t the Obama folks use her RNC-orchestrated press conference gaffe to point out that McCain has changed his tune on an issue near and dear to the GOP base? It would give further exposure to Bartoshevich, but she comes off looking like an ill-informed fool, so it’s hardly a ringing endorsement of PUMAism.

And it clearly conveys two key messages: 1) McCain now intends to overturn Roe v. Wade (so women who support it shouldn’t vote for him) and 2) He’s not the staunch pro-lifer he portrays himself to be (so the single-issue GOP voters should write in James Dobson or something).

Curious to put faces to those PUMAs.

Here they are:

Just visited the PumaPAC blog page - love how they post an article that is really dissing them!  (Margery Eagan at the Boston Herald)  I guess they are too dense to get it.

Hey, is the Daily Show back on track tonight?  I thought they’d have new stuff last night, but no go.

Ripley, I just checked the DVR and it’s recording tonight, so looks like we’re getting a new one. I saw Flickr pix of John Oliver and Jason Jones out there. Kinda surprised they didn’t cash in on the first night.

Tom Hartman said all the video footage
of the Convention used by the Networks is from FOX because
FOx won the right to do it this year.
THIS IS INSANE! Is it true? He used
this fact to explain- from his point
of view- the excessive shots of folks
yawning. I have to get back to work-hope
someone can clarify this.

Tom Hartman said all the video footage
of the Convention used by the Networks is from FOX because
FOx won the right to do it this year.
THIS IS INSANE! Is it true? He used
this fact to explain- from his point
of view- the excessive shots of folks
yawning. I have to get back to work-hope
someone can clarify this.

Geez, that doesn’t sound right to me. MSNBC seemed to have their own camera crews for the one-on-one interviews. It doesn’t make sense to me that they’d use “pool” camera crews.

I don’t know if this Jon Stewart quote has gotten around the blogosphere yet:

“We’ve set up a healing tent to talk about how unified the party is. We invited [Clinton supporter group] PUMA. We’re working with a child psychiatrist…puppets and animal psychology,” Stewart said.
————————&# 8212;———————— ;———————— 212;
I imagine Comedy Central will now be on their “media boycott” list.

Kevin

That is great.  I’d missed it, thanks

Jason, where’s that from? I LOLed.  I did indeed.  I LOLed.

Here ‘tis, Kev:

Trouble in paradise? This on PUMApac:

#827 SouthJerseyPUMA on 08.26.08 at 3:52 pm

today 18 million march was not pleased to have the PUMA’s march with them!! also, in my picture’s is a hummer~ they had a permit to drive that Hillary Hummer in the parade, but 18 million didnt want them~ even though they had a permit!! big scene!!

“I’m not a Democrat, I’m an independent.”

Uh-huh, and I’m a male model who only wants to open a center for children who don’t read good.

re: pool camera crews, I found this:

Okay, I’m going to chew through my tongue and only post this in this thread.

This is precisely what I’ve been trying to say. If they decide to pull any shenanigans, it will go down like this: Hillary will be gracious; Bill will dog-whistle, like he did is SC; and the gorilla squad just below them in the hierarchy (the surrogates) will stoke people like Murphy, Bower, Lee, etc. into their subversive and undermining actions. Not saying this is actually happening, but if the Clintons were going to pull shit, this is how they’d do it. I do have to ask, with Clinton saying what he did, how can Obama allow him to speak tomorrow?

I do have to ask, with Clinton saying what he did, how can Obama allow him to speak tomorrow?

You do know what’ll happen if he doesn’t, right? Let’s hope Bill has at least a modicum of concern about his legacy.

Good point.

What a fucking mess.

Will someone please cart Bill off for the next few days. And spare me this “he’s the only Dem to win an election.” That’s because he’s Republican-fucking-lite, or do you consider NAFTA progressive, or the banking reform bill, or the telecommunications act.

If our nightmares come true and Bill goes all wingnutty on us it won’t hurt Obama in the long run, unless…... Unless the media runs with this story from now until the election, which they probably will. But if the MSM does realize that Bill is indeed certifiable than this will all just come back on the Clintons.  And hopefully that will be the end of them.  Sorest. Losers. Ever.

“Let’s hope Bill has at least a modicum of concern about his legacy.”

Yeah, hopefully he doesn’t want to go down as the ex president who handed the presidency to the other party.  But I’m wondering if maybe Bill isn’t getting a little addled as he gets older.

Will someone please cart Bill off for the next few days.

I just thought of something terrible to write, but instead I’m going to go clean up the kitchen.  ;)

I just thought of something terrible to write

Did it involve castration?

^^^Forgot to add that I am off to clean my bedroom, and I would back you on the castration thingy if that is what you were thinking.

Maybe old Bill’s hitting the sauce.  He does have quite a ruddy complexion.  Maybe he had a wee nip o’ the single malt before the speech…

I’m probably in the minority, but I’ve still got something of a soft spot for Bill… not so much ideologically - he turned away from any seriously progressive path more than 15 years ago - but the man did used to have some political chops.

Strictly as a political junkie - and as a Democrat, I enjoyed watching the man operate.  He still shows flashes, on occasion—the beef with Chris Wallace about a year ago comes to mind.

Bill’s problem, though, is that he’s over the hill, politically speaking.  It’s like watching Greg Maddux or Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez nowadays…

You still occasionally see the flashes of the old brilliance… but more often than not, they simply can’t bring the game they used to bring.

Randy’s fastball isn’t what it once was… Greg’s ability to paint the corner with a good hook or a sneaky fastball is still there, but now it’s spinning up to the plate at 85 and quite hittable.

Bill’s kind of the same way… he went from a white house bunker to a bunker of private jets with rich library donors.  He got fat and out of practice.  He got older.

Perhaps I’m hoping against hope - but I’d just love to see Bill dial it up one more time, one more good red meat high hard one for the party.

That doesn’t mean I’m no longer pissed about his actions during the primary… I’ve had quite enough of the puffy faced finger pointing, thank you…

It just means that I do still remember that the man once had some serious chops - and for the good of the party, I’d like to see him toss one last gem.

Kevin: ” but I may use that later.”

please do.  They’ll probably take it down once they see it has been noticed.

I think a rogues gallery of record would be nice and they might even restrain their nastiness slightly if they know the world can connect their monikers to their faces.

Thanks for the link on the FOX video pool- perhaps Tom Hartman was over-reacting but a lot of callers seemed to agree with him about the bias. As I am paranoid I am going to scrutinize the shots more tonight. I did see lots of yawns but then I was yawning at Pelosi’s speech too. On Ed Shultze he said Bill dissed Obama today with a hypothetical argument about the best candidate. And supposedly some Obama folk in the stands are going to turn away from Hillary as she speaks until she says what they want to hear.

Good lord, are we in middle school again?

I forgot to add-ROAR

And supposedly some Obama folk in the stands are going to turn away from Hillary as she speaks until she says what they want to hear.

Perhaps I’m hoping against hope - but I’d just love to see Bill dial it up one more time, one more good red meat high hard one for the party.

Me too, KT. I’m also hoping there was some kind of context around BC’s remarks that renders them harmless and that the controversy is largely a media concoction. BC has acted like a petulant ass since the end of the primary, but maybe he’ll come through now that it matters.

I’m hoping Hillary does the right thing tonight.
We’ll see.

Chuck Todd announced some bad news about Bill’s speech ... guess who’s helping him with it?

Mark Penn.

Between the candidates X & Y comment today and that obvious slap at Obama (ie the memos), I don’t have high expectations for his speech tomorrow.

I am so fucking sick of hearing about the Clintons and Hillary’s supporters. I should really just turn off the TV until the main speeches start.

I should really just turn off the TV until the main speeches start.

I have been forced to watch on Cspan now. I highly suggest it.  If I never hear a single word about the “rift” in the democratic party again it will be too soon.
  Also, I now hate “hard working, blue collar Americans”

Savannah Guthrie to Spike Lee: What do you expect from Hillary tonight? Lee: I know Hillary will do the right thing.

Ha ha.

Cool shirt spike was wearing, too.

I don’t understand why, but I have an urge to rent a movie.

Fun PUMA quote of the evening:

gina613 on 08.26.08 at 9:30 pm

  I am going to turn on all my TVs to watch Hillary so her ratings go up.

God, I’m gonna miss these girls.

ROFL, Gimme, that’s a true gem. Thanks for sharing.

“Mark Penn”

Damn, sounds like Bill is planning to concern troll through his given 10 minutes or whatever.  I hope that is not the case and that he does the right thing too but not so much confidence now.  Before I read that I really intended to point out that Murphy has posted a big picture of herself on their blog and is crowing about snagging interviews with New Delhi TV and Al Jazeera England.  That’ll really influence American politics.

Here’s a great one from Kevin’s u-tubey about C. F. L. Adkins:

She does look like Mann Coulters little brother.

the husband and I are playing a drinking game - every time someone says ‘more of the same’ you have to drink - we are fucking WASTED!

at least we have a talking point!!!

ps. makr warner in 2012? homeboy looks gooood

Was makr an intentional misspelling?  And are you sure you’re not beer goggling?  (or bourbon goggling as the case may be).  I watched about five minutes and turned back to the Bank Job starring Jason Statham.  Between Michelle and Teddy last night I’m set for optimism for the week.  Sigh…

Yeah, he lost me when started preaching nationalism. That was about 15 seconds in. Sounded like a Republican to me.

I’m fucking drunk! shut up!

now, deval patrick… that’s some hot man candy!

is that hotness we can all agree on..?

Mark Penn?
Good grief.

Keith etc. are saying Bill will go after McCain hardcore as a means of setting a standard for Obama.

“Four more months!”

Hotness we can believe in?  The hotness we need?

dude, hillary is looking great, and she is talking straight to those pumasses

no-mccain! put that on your bumper bitches!

and no, looks are not all I care about - rilly! i think she’s giving the right speech

She’s delivering ...

Hillary’s smacking the PUMAs!  HA!

From TPM:

“I am honored to be here tonight. A proud mother. A proud Democrat. A proud American. And a proud supporter of Barack Obama.

My friends, it is time to take back the country we love.

Whether you voted for me, or voted for Barack, the time is now to unite as a single party with a single purpose. We are on the same team, and none of us can sit on the sidelines.

This is a fight for the future. And it’s a fight we must win…

You haven’t worked so hard over the last 18 months, or endured the last eight years, to suffer through more failed leadership.

No way. No how. No McCain.

Barack Obama is my candidate. And he must be our President.”

Damn straight.

OMG she just said with McCain we get “more roar and less diplomacy” - Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Can’t stop laughing

Darragh might as well pack up and head back to Boston.

Home rrrrrun.

Absolutely.

Excellent.

I just donated ten bucks to Hillary, and everyone else should, too.

If only for the thrill of watching the pumas implode.

Excellent speech by Hillary, I was very impressed.

Out of the freaking park.  After the primary I thought Hillary would only be able to make me shed tears of rage….but tonight, well tonight I shed tears of inspiration and joy. That Tubman stuff got me. 

How many little PUMA hearts are quietly breaking tonight? roar?

That was a superb, awesome, extraordinary speech. I can’t begin to express how much that defied my expectations. Incredible.

Yep, all of that.

Great job, that!  “Were you only in this for me…”  Good stuff.  She’s redeemed herself in my eyes for now.  Hope Bill stays on message.

The odds just went up that Bill will be a good boy.

Hillary’s speech was exceptional. That’s all.
Loved the strikes at PUMAs.

I sent Hillary $50 this evening, way to go.

Just added a Hillary speech post up front (with a donation link).

That rocks, Kevin (not me).

PUMA song, with apologies to Manic Hispanic and The Vandals:

I want to be a PUMA

I’ve got to be a PUMA

I was born to be a PUMA
I want to be a PUMA
A PUMA!
Uh-huh

Tonight we’re taking me fast car

Were gonna go down to the PUMA bar

I’m gonna wait till the club is full

and I’m gonna get rode by the republican bull

PUMA look is the one I sought

Can’t change now cause I’ve gone prostrate
To be a true PUMA was my fate

I can’t help it if I’m dumb as a crate

All the PUMAgirls in their Stetson hats

and their tight fitting jeans so they don’t look fat

We’ll all be listening to the PUMA tunes

and stomp around like a bunch of goons


PUMA look is the one I sought

Can’t change now cause the clothes are bought

To be a true PUMA was my fate

I can’t help it if I was born late



(sung to the tune of “I Want To Be A Cowboy/I Want To Be a Cholo”)