I ask because I honestly don’t know—at what point do we draw down completely?

A year ago.

What Len said. That said, my guess is we don’t know the whole story of what’s happening over there and why we stay. I don’t think anyone (well, over here anyway) really gives a shit if Afghanistan has a stable government and workable infrastructure anymore. I think the real reason we’re still in Afghanistan starts with a “P” and ends with an “akistan.”

Betty wins this round. 

Go read Sarah Chayes’ book “The Punishment of Virtue” for an on-the-ground-with-the-people account of working in Afghanistan.  Let’s just say that many of the radical ISI guys have left Pakistan and headed west; they intend to run Afghanistan whether we stay or not.

@Betty — I think you’re right about Pakistan.

I would also submit that getting out of these places — especially if they haven’t been totally “pacified” before you leave — is a lot tougher than getting in.

Totally agree, Betty.  There’s unstable governments trying to deal with internal terrorists all over the globe.  We can’t occupy all of them.  One of the bigger ones, and one that probably represents a much closer threat to our country, is directly south of us.  The gang violence there is totally out of control and Mexico is verging on being a failed state.

The gang violence there is totally out of control and Mexico is verging on being a failed state.

That’s ridiculous. I was in Chihuahua for a month in 2004, and the only machine guns I saw were the ones being carried by the 24/7 ground patrols at the local non-nuclear power plant.

Also, the only “gang activity” I saw was during a 100mph chase to the Chihuahua airport by people who wanted to kill my taxi driver and kidnap me.

Let’s not overreact.

About ten years ago I was frequenting a backwater UK forum where I made some observation about Afghanistan.

A British guy whose credentials were borne out by others there (and passed my sniff test, FWIW) claimed to be involved in training the Afghani security forces protecting Karzai, and was in a degree of grim despair—they’d set the trainees tasks like finding bombs planted on the underside of vehicles, and they consistently failed. They basically couldn’t assure Karzai’s safety beyond his secure enclave. That was ten years ago.

Which cheery note shows that it’s pretty easy to get embroiled in these conflicts. Disengaging without leaving behind a situation that’s going to get even worse and come back to bite you and a load of innocents (along with some who arguably had it coming) in the arse is damn near impossible.

Let’s see if I follow.
1. Assassinate a key figure in peace negotiations.
2. Cheer “victory.”
3. ?
4. Profit!

Forget it Jake, it’s Chinatown Afghanistantown.

Ugh.

Candygram for Mongo. Candygram for Mongo!

Republican/Taliban Underpants Gnome tactics. I love it.