I got your class warfare right here

I hear all this, you know, “Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever.”—No!

There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody.

You built a factory out there—good for you! But I want to be clear.

You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for.

You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate.

You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for.

You didn’t have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.

Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea—God bless. Keep a big hunk of it.

But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

She’s doing well in the early polls running against Scott Brown for his Senate seat. If she doesn’t get it, can we in the UK have first dibs on her?

Late update:

Since we seem to have a few folks in the comments who feel that Elizabeth Warren’s points were superficial and appear to want to see her defend them in debate, here she is doing that very thing on Morning Joe.

Posted by YAFB on 09/20/11 at 07:48 PM • Permalink

Categories: I Don't Know Much About Art, But I Know What I LikePoliticsElection '12

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She. Is. AWESOME!

...Can we clone her?  Please?

Well, my old buddy Al Franken can give a righteous spiel when he wants, too!

But can she freehand draw a map of—oh, never mind, she is BRILLIANT.

pay forward for the next kid who comes along

That is SO awesome.  Given that she leaped about 15 points in a couple of weeks I think Scott Brown may soon be an asterisk in the history books.  Go Elizabeth!

We need more like her. Just wow.

I wish all Dems could repeat this repeatedly and nothing else.
-Jamecca

She’s wonderful! I am in awe of her easy and clear communication style. I really love that she does not sound like any of my profs. I am so going to Massachusetts to volunteer for her campaign.

Yeah but, did Cosmo ever ask her to pose nekkid? No?
Well, there you are then.

Yeah but, did Cosmo ever ask her to pose nekkid? No?
Well, there you are then.

I just realized that EW does not drive a truck, so there goes the Senate.

She rocks.  Almost as much as my beloved Al Franken.  I threw in a couple of ducats her way.

I was concerned that Warren would be another in a long line of smart, well meaning political amateurs who crash and burn once they run for office. This video demonstrates that she at least knows how to explain liberal/Democratic principles in a way that the average person can understand without being hostile to the principle of “keeping what you earn”.

She makes me worry—is she not too correct, well-spoken, and necessary to win?

I’m rooting for her because when she speaks, hunks of sense fall out.

“when she speaks, hunks of sense fall out”

LOL!!  Yes they do, and what an excellent phrase.

Amazing speech!  Awesome!

I just hope she knows who is playing for the Boston Red Sox these days…and at least knows who Curt Schilling is…

Are we poor benighted non-americans looking at your next President in this clip?

You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for.
...
You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for.

Yay! This is what I have been telling my libertarian friends ever since Lesser Paul opened his stupid trap about the Civil Rights Act.

It does shut them up or at least render them goggle-eyed for a moment.

If you use the roads I pay for to move your products, if your business is protected by the fire and police forces I pay for, if your business and country is defended by the military forces I pay for, then no, you don’t get to deny me service and tell me to drive on.

No one made it on their own. No one. As others above have pointed out, this needs to be pounded home.

Love her. We’ve already given half the max in contributions and I’m trying to go to work for her but they don’t seem to have that end up and running yet. Can’t wait. I doubt we’ll even see her in Cambridge where she doesn’t need to worry about our votes. If she can make any inroads in the suburban towns then she’s golden.

aimai

Oooh! She’s fabulous! I lived in western Massachusetts for about 11 years and loved. She makes me wish I still lived there so I could vote for her.

I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that.  I just don’t agree with her. I’m sure you all have your reasons for believing the way you do just like I do.  What still makes the US the best is that we are free to express ourselves.

Greg,
Care to expound on that at all? You know, maybe WHAT you disagree with her about, or WHY?

Feel free to use as many words as you like. Whole sentences, even.

RE

We also paid for the electrical grid that delivers electricity to the company’s plant. We paid for the gas pipes that deliver methane for heating and cooking and the water system that delivers water for drinking and restrooms. The sewage system. We paid for the research that gave the company their computers as well as the concrete and rebar needed to build their plant. We pay to take care of the trash they generate.

Warren/Franken 2016.

@Razor Eddie — In America, we don’t have to explain why we disagree with other people. Generic disagreement of an unspecified nature is both embraced and encouraged, under the equally vague principles of Natural Law. In the words of the Great Patriot, “Give me Liberty, or give me the other thing. No, not that one — the sort of beigey one next to it, with the tassles.”

This isn’t Russia.

“Whole sentences, even.”

Now, now. Greg was very cordial in his disagreement. Save the hate for obvious trolling.

On topic: She is the queen of counter-talking points. I’d put her and Jon Stewart vs any two people on the right in a debate. That would be amazing to watch.

@ Greg Silva—I think there’s a Barney song about that!

“did Cosmo ever ask her to pose nekkid”

Maybe it’s just me, but I think she’s sexy as hell.

Elizabeth Warren weaponizes the smart.

“did Cosmo ever ask her to pose nekkid”

Maybe it’s just me, but I think she’s sexy as hell.

I would like to think that it’s not just you.

I’m just an average middle-aged straight lady, but I can’t imagine how any intelligent, thinking man could think the Arctic Harpy was sexier than Elizabeth Warren.

Not that that has anything to do with her qualifications despite what we have been told the last three years.

Elizabeth Warren weaponizes the smart.

Indeedy. I have my fingers seriously crossed that she succeeds, and that people like her and Franken and Obama are a sign that Stupid Anger has jumped the shark as the dominant political paradigm for the U.S.

Actually I don’t think Greg can be entirely discounted.

The very potential factory owners or general partners or investors she directs her comments to also have a lifetime of paying for fire protection, roads, water, education.  and some of them may be single, so they could be paying education taxes for the good of the country, but not for their own children. 

Additionally, the fact is that the very situation Warren calls for already exists.  The structure of production in the US is such that taxes are levied at every step.  When the raw materials are mined, they are taxed, when the materials are in the transportation phase, they are taxed.  When the materials go thru the manufacturing phase, then are taxed, and when they go through the wholesale and retail stages, they are taxed.  All of the elements that make up a pencil will be taxed many times before the graphite, wood, metal, and rubber are put together and sold at the supermarket where they will have sales tax applied.

So even during periods of our lowest taxation rates, huge tax revenue is generated.

Should the factory get up and running, it will create a large number of jobs, and every employee will be taxed, as will every purchase employees make.  In most states, taxes will be municipal, state, and federal.

Then, regrettably, should the taxes that the prospective factory owners pay be too high, they will re-locate to a state that imposes fewer taxes.  If taxes are still too high, they will abandon plans to build the factory, or build it outside of the US, depriving Americans of jobs and the government of a lot of tax revenues.

I personally like Warren—Warren’s spirit. But Dmocratic politicians in various states will be working hard to find a way for this factory to be attractive to the owners who wish to build it, and as a consequence Democrat politicians, as well as Republicans, will be trying to offer them a good deal if they can figure out a way to do it.

The very potential factory owners or general partners or investors she directs her comments to also have a lifetime of paying [...] The structure of production in the US is such that taxes are levied at every step.

Are they always taxed at a rate that balances how much gain the owners get from them?

Actually I don’t think Greg can be entirely discounted.

How do you know? He didn’t say anything.

Amherst—

Because Warren is, unlike most Republican political figures, not a reflexive liar or a hired operative for plutocracy, I think she would grant your point.  But she’s addressing the current GOP mythology, buttressed (they think) by quotes from Ayn Rand, that heroic “producers” act as unto gods and should be unfettered by any kind of legal, moral, or fiscal obligations. 

It doesn’t even matter if they believe it or not.  They hope the mob believes it.

The Republican Party used to at least have the decency to admit a certain amount of noblesse oblige.  Now the yahoos are in charge, and it’s all noblesse and no oblige.  We’re reduced to being excited when someone has the brains and the patience to explain to the increasingly stupid American public what “society” and “social contract” mean.

Xecky, it’s all over the map.  Sometimes owners forego any profits or even any salary for 5 or 6 years as part of their business plan.

Strange, how the hell are you, buddy? You’re still as sharp as ever.  If I’m lucky, someday I’ll buy you a couple.

Mr. Wonderful, I hear the exact same rhetoric from Republicans directed at Democrats.  Believe me, as I speak to you just one guy to another, both sides use the same cliches and demonizing each other, including the “moral equivalency” slogans.

In fact only about 20% of Americans keep up with all this, and most will not tune in until after both parties have selected their candidates.  Most Republicans are just the guy who works next to you or the gal picking up kids from school.

Here are some taxes I would like to get rid of. Big Pauli Costellano, the boss of the Gambino crime family before John Gotti rubbed him out, was a butcher in his early years.  As a consequence, we have a mafia tax on every piece of meat we buy in the United States.  Likewise, we pay a mafia tax on every piece of clothing because of La Cosa Nostra’s control over the garment district. So far we can’t even get rid of these guys. (But then they do contribute to a lot of political campaigns…)

“Mafia tax”??  C’mon Amherst, that doesn’t even rise to the status of urban legend.

Amherst,

College or townie?

Neil

A new Rumproast triumph: YAFB gets linked by Free Republic.

This is nothing but “rampant socialism” (not really, but I can see the mouse wheels whirring away in the heads of conservatives).  And thank the gods someone had the “cojones” to say these things.  They needed to be said.

The attack against the right should concentrate on their failure to honour the social contracts that they willingly accepted when times were good and money was plentiful.

If we had 99 senators and a majority of house representatives who had her sense, brilliance, and who is not bought and paid for by big business, we’d be out of this economic nightmare within 2 years!

Ya’ll need to stop dropping big lumps of irony on Freeperville:

Simpleton or else a cynic making an appeal to the stupidest amongst the populace.

Most of the taxes in this country are being paid by the top third of earners.  P of the people aren’t paying any income tax at all.  Most of the people in this country aren’t paying hardly any taxes at all.  No wonder factories are shutting down in this state and all over the country.  “The rest of the people” as she claims aren’t paying anything.  How much in taxes does her employer Harvard University pay?

First - Brown is no conservative, so congrats you have 2 liberals running against each other.

Secondly, if you are a tax paying US citizen and open a business - you paid for those same roads and fire/police protection along with everyone else.  So this idea that “the rest of us paid for” is a load of crap and shows just how idiotic this woman is.  Then once your business is up and running you are paying MORE taxes than everyone else.  So does that mean those business owners have more of a right to those roads, fire/police protection because they pay more taxes than the individual?  NO they don’t, but they damn well have the right to use them along with the rest of us.

Lastly, there are many companies that got started thanks solely to the owner of said business.  They put blood, sweat, tears, and whatever money they could scrape together, deprived themselves of many things including living space and sleep to see their dream become a reality.  So they do indeed create their business without anyone’s help.

She just doubled-down on class warfare.

Ooooooh, she doubled down on the class warfare, watch out, libs, the idiot brigade has warmed up its trumpets and pulled the covers off its drums.

Lastly, there are many companies that got started thanks solely to the owner of said business.

Name one, just one, that didn’t take advantage of the public infrastructure to get up and rolling. One, just name one, you blithering cocknozzle.

Tootsie, you wouldnt be able to do all those wonderful social projects, without the private sector creating the wealth to pay those taxes.

Chuck’s genuinely not grasping the concept of an organized, cooperative society with running water and patent protections.

She’s a total idiot. She has no clue where the roads, police, schools came from. They came from the guy who built the factory, the guy who employed the workers and the guy who took risks with HIS money and lent to the guy who built the factory. Without any of them, there are no schools, police or roads.

She doesnt even know how basic economics works in a free society.

“I love her! I love her! I love her!”

What is it about leftists falling deeply in love with fraudulent, dishonest politicians? Didn’t your disastrous choice of Obama teach you anything?

Warren is a transparent phony, too.

http://tinyurl.com/3zt9o44

After you elect her and she screws you, I don’t want to hear a peep of complaint, okay?

Comment by Llarry on 09/21/11 at 05:23 PM

They came from the guy who built the factory, the guy who employed the workers and the guy who took risks with HIS money and lent to the guy who built the factory.

Is that in the same movie that has the animated House Bill that walks itself through Congress to the President’s desk?

The proof she’s got her analysis ass backwards is look what happens in places like Detroit when they lose their factory. The schools, roads and police all reduce their services because there is no longer any tax revenues to fund those govt services.

After you elect her and she screws you, I don’t want to hear a peep of complaint, okay?

No problem here. If she’s like Obama, she’ll only fuck us over half as hard as she screws you, which is a win in my book.

Ill gladly debate you when you show youre capable of debating economics.

I wasn’t asking for a debate. I just wanted to know if those were two different cartoons.

So, if I don’t a factory I don’t have to pay taxes? That’s what you’re saying, because we all know that John Q. Private built all the roads—by himself!—with no help, no assistance and cooperation from his neighbors. No sirree, ol’ John just magically built his factory, therefore he gets to set the rules.

Uh-huh, Warren is completely wrong about the economics and social policy, this guy just said so and it IS on the internet, therefore it MUST be true!

Silly libs.

Oooooooh, a debate! The commenter desires a debate!

Except you’re to damn foolish to realize your sainted “private sector” is just another part of the overall community, but please, do go on, this should be fun!

No problem here. If she’s like Obama, she’ll only fuck us over half as hard as she screws you, which is a win in my book.

Yes, because Obama’s policies have damaged liberals only half as much as they’ve damaged conservatives. Or something…

Yes, because Obama’s policies have damaged liberals only half as much as they’ve damaged conservatives. Or something…

Hell, we’re all on Food Stamps and living in subsidized Section 8 housing, so it’s actually been a pretty smooth ride so far.

Even if Odumbo fails to implement Cloward-Piven, I’ll still vote for him, just ‘cause he made the effort.

Wait just a hell-frozen minute, Strange. He linked to a story from the WALL STREET JOURNAL, a story written by Todd Zywicki! He’s a professor! At George Mason!

You are so toast, Strange, just give up, you got Zywicki-rolled and it aint pretty.

Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea—God bless. Keep a big hunk of it.

But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

How can any thinking adult react positively to such a ridiculous straw man? There isn’t a factory owner in the nation saying he or she shouldn’t pay any taxes. The question is the amount of taxes.

Why do you people cheer on someone making such a stupid argument? You call the Tea Party a bunch of idiots, but here you are clapping like trained seals over a pile of cheap, steaming, Third World level demagoguery.

Oh boy, so you mean that here, in the state of California, where Exxon-Mobil owes billions of dollars in taxes, that they are just gonna pony up because they feel obligated?

Huh, it sure seems to me that they lobbied 14 Republican Senators pretty damn hard to avoid paying a dime in income taxes, but you, of course, know better. Is that enough straw for you?

Every goddamned major manufacturer left in this country has paid billions of dollars to lobby supplicant congressmembers to avoid paying taxes, but you, oh sage of the blog basement, are telling us differently?

I mean, lawd have mercy that you dirty libs hurl such hurtful accusations at the true Americans, you know the ones who want to poison your water with their slag and runoff, poison your wetlands with untreated sludge, foul the air with unfiltered toxins, I say, that’s a low blow there chappie!

Hell, we’re all on Food Stamps and living in subsidized Section 8 housing, so it’s actually been a pretty smooth ride so far.

Mentioning food stamps is racist, you bastard. I’m reporting you to Attaaaaaaaaack Waaaaaaaaaaaaatch.

Why do you people cheer on someone making such a stupid argument? You call the Tea Party a bunch of idiots, but here you are clapping like trained seals over a pile of cheap, steaming, Third World level demagoguery.

And I guess your United Fruit model of private industry isn’t.

Ooooh! Oooooh! I forgot Amzaon, you know, that amazing “job creator” who refuses to comply with state law in the collection of state sales taxes all the while they run a swaetshop in Pennsylvania to ensure we get our used books and electronics in THREE DAYS!

And Amazon doesn’t use any infrastructure, at all! It’s all magic tree fairies and mushroom gnomes who labor away in the dark of night to produce electricity, safe roads, police and fire protection and an efficient delivery system (USPS) to get their goods delivered.

Those Amazon guys have been begging to pay their fair share in taxes, unemployment insurance and investing is a safe, clean, healthy work environment because saying otherwise is making straw out of hay and Ron Paul will cry!

Oh boy, so you mean that here, in the state of California, where Exxon-Mobil owes billions of dollars in taxes, that they are just gonna pony up because they feel obligated?

Eh? What are you blathering about? In the first quarter of 2011 Exxon-Mobil earned $2.6 billion in the entire United States and incurred tax liabilities of $3.1 billion. The company paid more taxes in the U.S. than it earned.

And I guess your United Fruit model of private industry isn’t.

What’s this gibberish supposed to mean? Isn’t what?

Can you please try to make sense? It’s hard enough to plow through all these blubbering paeans to Elizabeth Warren and the crappy imitations of Michael Moore.

Can you please try to make sense? It’s hard enough to plow through all these blubbering paeans to Elizabeth Warren and the crappy imitations of Michael Moore.

Ring for your servants. They will bring you soothing salves and unguents.

Awww come on LLLLLLlllaarry, Exxon-Mobil hasn’t paid a dime in income taxes in the state of California for more than 15 years. Now, you can dance all you wish, but I understand facts and teabagger go as well together as Palin and sensible statement, but at least try a bit harder.

I’ll give you credit for this hilarious line, however ...

The company paid more taxes in the U.S. than it earned.

Now that’s funny.

I do agree with you, though, Llllllllarry, I think we should force all American workers to perform under the King leopold ruiles—don’t produce enough, get a hand chopped off. Don’t stand on the manufacturing line long enough, watch as your wife and child are beaten until you comply.

I mean, if it weren’t for these beneficent and stolid business owners (you know, the ones who started and produced everything on their own) who deign to even offer a wage, much less a safe working environment, we’d all be eating beans.

Warren will bring the plutocrats to heel, just as Palin did in Alaska.

Now that’s funny.

Well, okay. If you say so. I tend to get my yucks from talking cat videos and the like, but each to his own.

If more multi-national corporations paid taxes in excess of profits, our highways would be awesome.

Ring for your servants. They will bring you soothing salves and unguents.

Weird. I ask you make sense, and you tell me to ring for my servants. I guess non sequiturs pass for wit in these here parts.

“Do you hate Palin the way I do?”

“Like a chair eats a pollywog!”

Haw!

Chuck’s genuinely not grasping the concept of an organized, cooperative society with running water and patent protections.

Comment by StrangeAppar8us on 09/21/11 at 06:21 PM


If you want communism - go to Cuba and see how well that works for ya.  Leave the US alone so that those to flee Cuba on makeshift rafts still have a place to dream about living in.

If more multi-national corporations paid taxes in excess of profits, our highways would be awesome.

Absolutely! Because the government is infinitely smarter than we are when it comes to spending our money. All the cool kids know that.

Exactly, Strange. I mean, there isn’t a multi-national corporation that isn’t begging to pay more taxes, even more taxes larger than profits! I mean, this is why the libs are doomed, they just can’t see the factory for the the toxic smog belching out of the smokestack.

All patriotic American international corporations are willing to pay more than their fair share of taxes to the United States because of Betsy Ross’s sewing skills.

Why, just last week Grupo Modelo literally got down on its knees to beg the US to take taxes from its huge brewing interests.

You may not know this, but Grupo Modelo was started by one guy with a barrel, a big wooden paddle, three senoritas and some hops, and look at it today, the biggest brewer in Azteca-land and they are just dying to pay US taxes, just as good patriotic corporations across the globe are doing.

If you want communism - go to Cuba and see how well that works for ya.

Thanks, but I’m very happy with a Republic.

You, on the other hand, would have made a killing under Batista.

You see, Chuckles and Lllllllarry are big corporate manufacturers and they don’t like Cuba, or Cubans. They don’t know why, but they’ll say it anyway because it’s the in thing to say.

What Chuck wanted to say was that he has no concrete idea that he lives in a large, varied community and for that community to maintain its standing as a bastion of freedom no one should pay any taxes because that’s Cuba. Capice?

It’s all clear when you use science and logic, like Lllllllarry does, because he’s all sciency and logicy and stuff.

I do agree with you, though, Llllllllarry, I think we should force all American workers to perform under the King leopold ruiles—don’t produce enough, get a hand chopped off.

Bwah-ha-hah-ha-ha!

Wait: What does this have to do with anything I said?

Are you responding to someone else, someone in another dimension? Or are you having a spirited debate with yourself?

HumboltIdiot—keep shining as the poster child for the moronic left.

You see, Chuckles and Lllllllarry are big corporate manufacturers and they don’t like Cuba, or Cubans. They don’t know why, but they’ll say it anyway because it’s the in thing to say.

Holy shit. Is this really how you guys argue? And you’re shocked that you’re losing the national debate.

Don’t get me wrong: I’m tickled pink that all you can do is pound, pound, pound away with the teenage sledgehammer snark and boilerplate talking points.

But still: It’s pretty horrifying to encounter people who are so limited. I shouldn’t be surprised. Our president, after all, is a denizen of this milieu, and he’s no more capable of defending his policies than you are.

Zombies. Genuine zombies. Creepy.

Chuck? I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that you would react with such hostility, and here I am defending you with the vim and vigor of 13 strawberry pickers who will most assuredly come down with three forms of lymphatic cancer after their 15-hour days of slaving in a field for well-below Federally mandated wages.

That’s some thanks i get.

I mean, both you and Llllllllarry have made it abundantly clear that you wish to be successful manufacturers of great importance, I am just trying to show you the light, the light that these dastardly libtards would extinguish, and along with it, the ever-burning lamp of freedom.

FRRRREEEEEEDDDDOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!111!!11

You want Freedom, Humboldt? Then don’t encourage these people to oppose nice roads. Nice roads are Freedom.

Horrifying? Horrifying is reading the tripe that tools like you and Chuckles pass along as some sort of cogent argument in favor of tax policies that would benefit a small minority.

Horrifying is reading as you attempt to describe an economic policy that went out of style in this nation with the recognition that employers have a duty to their employees just as an employee has a duty to the business owner as well as to society at large.

In other words, Lllllarrry, you’re a tool and you and your ideas are being mocked here on the smallest level while folks like Warren and our damn fine President, Barack Hussein Obama, point out just how craven, mean and lacking in any moral or ethical or economic sense those policies are.

But hey, you came into my sandbox and I’m having a blast!

In other words, Lllllarrry, you’re a tool and you and your ideas are being mocked here on the smallest level while folks like Warren and our damn fine President, Barack Hussein Obama, point out just how craven, mean and lacking in any moral or ethical or economic sense those policies are.

Damn fine President Solyndra is pointing out just how craven, mean and lacking in any moral or ethical or economic sense whose policies are?

Hummerdolt— your cup runneth over with hypocrisy but you are running dry on intellect.

You can make these comments without warrant:

you blithering cocknozzle.

Comment by HumboldtBlue on 09/21/11 at 06:11 PM


But if I point out the obviousness of your itty bitty IQ then I’m “hostile”.  Priceless.

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously?

Horrifying is reading the tripe that tools like you and Chuckles pass along as some sort of cogent argument in favor of tax policies that would benefit a small minority.

The funny thing is, I actually didn’t say a word about tax policies. I said the debate is about how much taxes we should pay. I also pointed out that Warren has a history of distorting her research to fit into her political agenda.

You’re on automatic pilot. Your entire drama-queen spiel is completely canned. I’m grateful, because it shows that your side is out of gas. That Damn Fine President has done more to discredit statism than any GOP candidate could do.

Instead of indulging in even a nanosecond of introspection, you unload every single cliché in your arsenal.

It’s how the Damn Fine President will run his reelection campaign, too. Which means he’s a goner. Thank Zeus.

cliché

Oh my goodness, he must be mad. He hauled out the character map.

The funny thing is, I actually didn’t say a word about tax policies. I said the debate is about how much taxes we should pay.

Good point! Tax policies have nothing to do with how much taxes we should pay!

Oooooo, Llllllaaarrrryyyy you don’t really want to go there, do you? You know jack-fuck about Solyndra, so stop pretending you do. Now I understand that shitbags like you want to “manufacture” (see what I did there, Lllllaaaarrrry?) something out of it, but you’ll soon learn that the Solybdra story is about as important as you posting comments on a backwater liberal blog.

Now, Lllllllarrryyy, if ya really want to play, you’d be looking into how massive coal interests have poisoned an entire region of the country, all the while lining the pockets of politicians who ensure their profit margins aren’t affected by those pesky safety regulations. But you won’t do that, will you Lllllaaarrry, no we both know you won’t, because as I pointed out above, you’re a fucking tool and I’m having fun sharpening my snark on your ass.

If coal is too hard, Llllaarrryyy, maybe you could look into an easy one, like Amazon, or, maybe you could look into the fact that the Gulf of Mexico is now a toxic wasteland because a litany of slippery, slimy oil barons and their bought-and-paid-for Busies and Cheneys allowed the worst man-made natural disaster to happen.

But you won’t Llllaaarrryyy, because you think you have something to stick the president with when it comes to Solyndra, and you know very well, or will soon learn, you don’t.

You see, Solyndra didn’t pollute the environment for decades, didn’t watch as thousands of its employees were killed because of profit margins and industrial accidents and to this day I haven’t heard of one single small area-based business that has been forced into bankruptcy because Solyndra couldn’t cook it’s books like Exxon.

I don’t know how they do things in Massachusetts, but here in Minnesota factory owners do pay for roads, schools, fire and police, and all the other usual city services through their property taxes. And they do so at generally two to three times the residential rate. Does Massachusetts need help in figuring out how to do property taxes or is Warren just spouting a bunch of class warfare nonsense?

Good point! Tax policies have nothing to do with how much taxes we should pay!

Jeez. Not only are you confused by diacritics, you also have a reading-comprehension problem.

This is how Obama got elected, isn’t it?

Mrs. Polly, please, as I pointed out above, logic and introspection are Lllllaaarrry’s strong points, it’s quite obvious, all I am trying to do is protect them from the likes of Strange and his godless, liberal policies of doom.

Chuck, on the other hand, is so fucking dense he makes a black hole appear as loose as a pair of female Palin legs.

That Damn Fine President has done more to discredit statism than any GOP candidate could do.

“Statism” is is just a stepping stone. The exciting stuff comes later:

In order to become social, private property must as inevitably pass through the state stage as the caterpillar in order to become a butterfly must pass through the pupal stage. But the pupa is not a butterfly. Myriads of pupae perish without ever becoming butterflies. State property becomes the property of “the whole people” only to the degree that social privilege and differentiation disappear, and therewith the necessity of the state. In other words: state property is converted into socialist property in proportion as it ceases to be state property.

It’s all been worked out. Don’t sweat it.

Off for a beer, Mrs. P, can I get you one, or should I save it for Llllaaarry and chuck, they said they were coming by my place to look at my butterfly collection.

I’d invite Dave E., but that dumbass is so goddamn late to the party he thinks he has something to offer other freeper talking points. Fucking Minnesota and their property taxes, i mean, who pays property taxes?

Oooooo, Llllllaaarrrryyyy you don’t really want to go there, do you? You know jack-fuck about Solyndra, so stop pretending you do. Now I understand that shitbags like you want to “manufacture” (see what I did there, Lllllaaaarrrry?) something out of it, but you’ll soon learn that the Solybdra story is about as important as you posting comments on a backwater liberal blog.

Splutter, splutter, splutter. All it takes to make a leftist hysterical is to disagree with them politically. You’ve never called a terrorist a “shitbag” in your life, but the second someone points out that the Damn Fine President has a wee little corruption problem, the saliva starts flying.

Time to grow up, sweetheart. He’s not your boyfriend. He’s a machine politician from Chicago who had a record of corruption, incompetence, and indolence long before he became C-in-C. That’s why I reluctantly voted for the crazy old man and the snowbilly.

There was literally no chance Obama would be a good president. None whatsoever.

There was literally no chance Obama would be a good president. None whatsoever.

Indeed. He surprised all of us by passing Obamacare and getting DADT repealed, not to mention saving the global economy from collapse (temporarily) and just generally being a swell fellow and the Only Adult in the Room. We all assumed he’d just be a Black McCain, but the man has blossomed in the job.

I’m rather late to the party myself, HB, but I see you and Strange kept the canapés coming.

After Llllarry’s correction, I tremblingly hang my head. Tax policy evidently does not have to do with how much tax we should pay, and the embarrassment of having my illiteracy highlighted thusly is making my cheeks fair burn.

It’ll take more than a snootful of sherry to help me forget.

Does Massachusetts need help in figuring out how to do property taxes or is Warren just spouting a bunch of class warfare nonsense?

Look at the level of the people here who support her. The answer is they want someone who says she’s going to stuck it to all the immoral shitbags who have the gall to make money. Her argument is dishonest and childish, but they slurp it right down.

I’ve recently realized that liberals are all about paying lip service. That’s why Michael Moore can invest in Halliburton and Raytheon and why Obama is allowed to do exactly the opposite of what he says he’s doing. These people are only interested in superficial trappings. As long as you say the right things, you can do whatever you want.

Liberalism is all form over substance. It’s all about moral preening and pretend. They’re all pretending to be things that they aren’t.

He surprised all of us by passing Obamacare and getting DADT repealed

What, exactly, did President Downgrade do to pass ObamaCare and the repeal of DADT? Explain the leadership he displayed.

These people are only interested in superficial trappings. As long as you say the right things, you can do whatever you want.

We also substitute emotions for logic. Don’t forget that one.

“Statism” is is just a stepping stone. The exciting stuff comes later:

In order to become social, private property must as inevitably pass through the state stage as the caterpillar in order to become a butterfly must pass through the pupal stage. But the pupa is not a butterfly. Myriads of pupae perish without ever becoming butterflies. State property becomes the property of “the whole people” only to the degree that social privilege and differentiation disappear, and therewith the necessity of the state. In other words: state property is converted into socialist property in proportion as it ceases to be state property.


It’s all been worked out. Don’t sweat it.

Comment by StrangeAppar8us on 09/21/11 at 08:13 PM

That’s funny stuff.  You’ll have to confiscate millions of firearms and tens of millions more rounds of ammunition before that will ever happen.  Or you can simply go to North Korea and see first hand how that really works.

When exactly did President Downgrade

I welcome this chance to remind you that the downgrade was specifically because S&P feared that your lovely Teastained Reps would crash the car.

A Standard & Poor’s director said for the first time Thursday that one reason the United States lost its triple-A credit rating was that several lawmakers expressed skepticism about the serious consequences of a credit default — a position put forth by some Republicans.
Without specifically mentioning Republicans, S&P senior director Joydeep Mukherji said the stability and effectiveness of American political institutions were undermined by the fact that “people in the political arena were even talking about a potential default,” Mukherji said.
“That a country even has such voices, albeit a minority, is something notable,” he added. “This kind of rhetoric is not common amongst AAA sovereigns.”

Sorry, dear, pathetic rebranding attempt.

That’s funny stuff.  You’ll have to confiscate millions of firearms and tens of millions more rounds of ammunition before that will ever happen.  Or you can simply go to North Korea and see first hand how that really works.

Funny, my big problem with the Trotsky quote was the pupa/butterfly analogy. Too organic. Actually, the process is more like knocking down a square block on a lathe. Also, his notion of “permanent revolution” seems impractical and socially exhausting.

The “bullet” angle is interesting, though. Nice to know that’s the first place your mind goes when I jerk your dick with a joke Trotsky quote.

We also substitute emotions for logic. Don’t forget that one.

Maybe in the past, but today it’s all that Jon Stewart smirking that substitutes for genuine emotion. Except for rage. You guys are great at melodramatic, TV-inspired raging.

“You shitbag! I’ll kill you for saying that!”

Hilarious.

Strange, we’re serving Tea Party Downgrade, with a side of Mat Maid Dairy Scandal. Lllarry, would you care to partake of some Palin Crony Capital Salmonella-riddled Cheese Futures? They’ve aged nicely.

You guys are great at melodramatic, TV-inspired raging.

Talk to Chuck. He has all the guns and bullets.

I welcome this chance to remind you that the downgrade was specifically because S&P feared that your lovely Teastained Reps would crash the car.

Holy crap. You really can’t read, can you? Your own quote said it was one of the reasons, not the sole reason.

Duh.

Lllarry, would you care to partake of some Palin Crony Capital Salmonella-riddled Cheese Futures? They’ve aged nicely.

Palin’s not running. The current Damn Fine President, on the other hand, is getting in hotter water by the day when it comes to crony capitalism and arming narco-terrorists.

Funny, my big problem with the Trotsky quote was the pupa/butterfly analogy. Too organic. Actually, the process is more like knocking down a square block on a lathe. Also, his notion of “permanent revolution” seems impractical and socially exhausting.

The “bullet” angle is interesting, though. Nice to know that’s the first place your mind goes when I jerk your dick with a joke Trotsky quote.

You might think its funny to joke about communism/fascism, but the hundreds of thousands of Americans who have died fighting against the spread of communism/fascism aren’t laughing.  You’ll find the great majority of the general public don’t think it’s a damn bit funny either.  We take defending America and it’s FREEDOM as a serious matter of life or death so excuse us if we don’t laugh at your sick humor.

Your own quote said it was one of the reasons, not the sole reason.

Well, hell, then—you guys were merely complicit in the downgrade, then.

Thanks for the clarification.

Ah, only ONE of the reasons! That’s all right then. It was the only reason specifically cited, of course, but let’s include the massive debt run up by Obama’s predecessor, who not only started a war with the wrong country that destabilized the region and tipped the balance of power in that region to Iran, but allowed September 11th to happen on his watch, after being warned about Bin Laden by President Clinton.

Oh yes, Bin Laden. Whatever happened to him, anyway? I just don’t think about him any more.

Talk to Chuck. He has all the guns and bullets.

So what? He’s nowhere near as hysterical as HumboldtBlue.

“Shitbag! Cocknozzle!”

When I read HumboldtBlue’s posts, I hear them in soprano in my head. How about you?

OK Larry, let’s look at this from a historical perspective.

Capital Gains taxes have been slashed over the last forty years from roughly 28% to the current 15%, yet there is no correlation - none - between the cut in the tax and any increase in GDP.

The top 1% of earners and large corporations have increased their share of all wealth in this country to historic highs, through tax cuts. Yet for all the largesse we have granted them, for all the money they’ve managed to hold on to, it has not trickled down. Ever. Rather than reinvest in the work force (as we were all told they would, if only we would cut their taxes), corporations have increasingly taken jobs offshore without penalty.

I’ll leave the snark to my betters, but if you want to come in here and spout talking points about trickle-down economics, you’d better come armed with something more than “class envy”.

I didn’t really expect an intelligent and civil response, but every so often I try, just in case. Oh well.

You might think its funny to joke about communism/fascism, but the hundreds of thousands of Americans who have died fighting against the spread of communism/fascism aren’t laughing.  You’ll find the great majority of the general public don’t think it’s a damn bit funny either.  We take defending America and it’s FREEDOM as a serious matter of life or death so excuse us if we don’t laugh at your sick humor.

If pain persists, see your doctor.

So what? He’s nowhere near as hysterical as HumboldtBlue.

Oh, yeah, he’s fuckin’ Yoda.

Ah, only ONE of the reasons!

Yes, only one of the reasons. Did you not see that when you posted the quote, you cretin? It’s really not that hard a word to read and comprehend. At least not for me.

Lllllarrry, don’t get angry now, you’re just being made fun of because of you silly notions about taxation and tax policy. It’s just mockery based in reality and as a teabagging fuck knuckle it’s understandable you struggle with reality.

Just because your political leaders are doing their damndest to ensure none but the very wealthy get a break in this country is no reason to get all red-faced.

Just because you think a grifter like Scott Walker and his Kock-sucking ways are the bees knees doesn’t mean that an overwhelming majority of your fellow citizens don’t see right through yet another corporate money-grab.

Yes, only one of the reasons. Did you not see that when you posted the quote, you cretin? It’s really not that hard a word to read and comprehend. At least not for me.

That is HUGH and SERIES.

Hats off to Lllllary, Roasters!

He can read the word “ONE.”

Must have sounded it out.

The top 1% of earners and large corporations have increased their share of all wealth in this country to historic highs, through tax cuts.

The top 1 percent of earners pay 28 percent of all income taxes, and the corporate tax rate is the second highest in the industrialized world.

We take defending America and it’s FREEDOM as a serious matter of life or death so excuse us if we don’t laugh at your sick humor.

So you are a veteran like our own Humboldt Blue? Thanks for your service, but how on earth did you get through basic with that stick up~~

Oh heck. I can’t. I can’t say it. I would never make it in the infantry.

The top 1 percent of earners pay 28 percent of all income taxes, and the corporate tax rate is the second highest in the industrialized world.

Dude — and you crapped on me for non sequiturs.

Let me see - StrangeAppar8us, I get the feeling that you are going on 30 and have been a perpetual college “student” since you left high school?  You’ve “mastered” several courses of study but find that no one in the real world has a use for anyone who majored in music therapy?  Or was it African-American studies?  To this day you’ve not earned a single cent of your own yet you shop at Whole Foods on a regular basis to gorge yourself on food purchased with EBT or money leftover from your student loans?  You don’t have money to buy health insurance but somehow those new tatoos, smokes, alcohol, and some sweet sticky bud always find room in your budget.  keep railing against the man - man, it’s only been a failure for 50 years now, don’t give up the dream.

Lllllarrry, don’t get angry now, you’re just being made fun of because of you silly notions about taxation and tax policy. It’s just mockery based in reality and as a teabagging fuck knuckle it’s understandable you struggle with reality.

Well, since I haven’t actually stated a single notion about taxation, you’re on autopilot again. You’re like a windup toy, aren’t you?

“Shitbag! Fuck knuckle! Caca! Peepee!”

Amazing that you can’t bring more people over to your side!

Oooooh, Chuck brought out the old “they died defending you from Commies and Nazis!” line. You can guarantee any little slimy slug like Chuck never did because when someone starts blowing the “freedom isn’t free” bugle you know they’re one step away from Larry Craig’s bathroom stall.

Chuck, if you think this nation is even remotely heading to a communist state, well, it’s obvious you do, but hell, you keep on wearing that American flag pin and saluting heroes like Deferment Dick Cheney and Trick Knee Saxby Chambliss.

If you had any working definition of either communism or nazism you’d re-think what you wrote, but I expect too much, I see.

You are always welcome to get the fuck out, we’ll hold the door open for you.

There isn’t a factory owner in the nation saying he or she shouldn’t pay any taxes. The question is the amount of taxes.

Huh, I sure as shit didn’t write that silly statement, how’bout you, Strange?

Dude — and you crapped on me for non sequiturs.

Why does everything have to be spelled out for you people? You seriously cannot be this stupid.

The guy said that the top 1 percent of earners and corporations have increased their share of the wealth to historic highs, and I pointed out that they’re also paying massively high taxes.

Do you understand now, dude? Nobody’s getting a free ride, dude, except for the 50 percent of the country that doesn’t pay federal income taxes. You don’t have to clench your little fists and stomp your little feet about the social injustice of it all.

The top 1 percent of earners pay 28 percent of all income taxes, and the corporate tax rate is the second highest in the industrialized world.

Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a factoid out of my hat!

Yesss…the top 1 percent are able to pay 28 percent of all income taxes, EVEN THOUGH THEY BARELY FEEL IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE SO MUCH MONEY. They are doing better now than they have in 50 years.

I realize that link is not to WorldNutDaily or Newsmax, but that’s the hazard of venturing outside the FreeperBubble.

that itty bitty IQ just keeps rearing it’s head Hummerplease, you poor boy you.  I never stated that we were heading to communism, that was your fellow moron Strap1onus.  I pointed out the fact that would be nearly impossible thanks to the liberties we enjoy in the US.

@Chuck—Nope. I’m 56, and I spent my whole adult life consulting for Fortune 500 companies, mostly in nuclear and conventional power, robotics, advanced materials and defense. I worked for four chairmen of Westinghouse, and I’ve seen all kinds of crazy shit I can never talk about, under penalty of death.

How was your day?

Oh poor Llaaarrrryyyy ... even your dumbass neighbor knows that both personal and corporate tax rates are at their lowest level since the 50s. But you pretend that you’re actually arguing a point when it’s readily apparent you’re just dull.

The top 1 percent of earners pay 28 percent of all income taxes, and the corporate tax rate is the second highest in the industrialized world.

Did you know that dogs and bees can smell fear?

Huh, I sure as shit didn’t write that silly statement, how’bout you, Strange?

Professor Warren made the statement. You know, the brilliant academic you’re in love with. She said, “But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

Factory owners are already “paying forward” (vomit) a hunk of their earnings. The implication in Warren’s statement is that factory owners are balking at paying anything in taxes. They aren’t. The argument is over how much people should pay in taxes.

@Chuck—Nope. I’m 56, and I spent my whole adult life consulting for Fortune 500 companies, mostly in nuclear and conventional power, robotics, advanced materials and defense. I worked for four chairmen of Westinghouse, and I’ve seen all kinds of crazy shit I can never talk about, under penalty of death.

How was your day?

now that’s the funniest post of the night.  ok so you might be 56 and childless, and single, but the rest is total garbage

Deafening silence from the We’re Fighting For Freedom From Our Keyboardz boyz on their heroic military service.

Just modest, I guess.

ok so you might be 56 and childless, and single, but the rest is total garbage

It’s just killin’ ya, ain’t it?

The implication in Warren’s statement is that factory owners are balking at paying anything in taxes.

Wrong. As repeatedly pointed out, corporations spend billions of dollars lobbying for exactly that - the right to pay as little as possible. One of the advantages of living in the DC area is that I get bombarded on a daily basis with radio ads by lobbying groups screaming that paying taxes and being regulated are the worst things ever. The underlying message lately has been “nice economy you have there, it would be a shame if something happened to it”.

Oh sweet jesus, Chuck, lay off the fucking faux flag-waving, it only reinforces the fact that you came here armed with freeper logic and the utter ridiculousness that are freeper talking points.


You want to know who is abridging liberties in this nation look no further than the craven attempts to destroy public and private unions; look no further than the increasing control multi-national corporations have over our judiciary, our lawmakers and those who support the patriot act.

They’re spying on you, asshole, they’re spying on you and instead of actually stopping to think for a moment, you just pull down your pants like a good fucking Republican and ask for more.

Deafening silence from the We’re Fighting For Freedom From Our Keyboardz boyz on their heroic military service.

Just modest, I guess

must be a pretty good gig being the house bunny.  I’m pretty sure the only thing Hummerplease has ever defended would have been his bag of cheetos from his mother while he’s downloading kiddie porn in her basement.

Oh poor Llaaarrrryyyy ... even your dumbass neighbor knows that both personal and corporate tax rates are at their lowest level since the 50s.

More reading-comprehension problems.

Factory owners are already “paying forward” (vomit) a hunk of their earnings. The implication in Warren’s statement is that factory owners are balking at paying anything in taxes. They aren’t. The argument is over how much people should pay in taxes.

That made me laugh, Llllaaarrry, seriously, and the cold beer helps as well.

The whole strategy of the teabegger enablers is to get willfully ignorant saps like you to buy into that bullshit notion. They are doing everything in their power to keep from paying taxes, we’ve been over this already so it should be fresh.

More reading-comprehension problems.

One would have to possess the ability comprehend first and foremost.

I’m pretty sure the only thing Hummerplease has ever defended would have been his bag of cheetos from his mother while he’s downloading kiddie porn in her basement.


Oooo, look at Colonel Jessup.

Needs more “you can’t handle the truth”.

Not in the service, then.

Too bad! What was it, a pilonidal cyst like El Rushbo? No wonder they’re so cranky and uncomprehending.

So hard to think clearly when there’s fire down below!

Wrong. As repeatedly pointed out, corporations spend billions of dollars lobbying for exactly that - the right to pay as little as possible.

Man, you people and your inability to understand what anyone is saying.

Again, here’s what Warren said: “But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

By your own admission, corporations are lobbying to pay as little as possible, which still qualifies as Warren’s “hunk.” The argument is over the size of that hunk.

If you want to reduce the power of lobbyists, reduce the size and influence of government. Legislators write laws and then give bureaucrats the power to waive those laws in exchange for donations from lobbyists, the way Obama did with ObamaCare.

As long as government is huge and powerful, lobbyists will be huge and powerful.

must be a pretty good gig being the house bunny.  I’m pretty sure the only thing Hummerplease has ever defended would have been his bag of cheetos from his mother while he’s downloading kiddie porn in her basement.

Well, Chuck, I don’t eat cheetos, but I do smoke weed, truly fucking epic weed, locally grown, marketed and sold in a gleaming example of the free market.

As for my mom, she owns a ranch house 700 miles south and doesn’t have a basement.

Oh, and Strange’s credentials are really pissing you off, aren’t they?

@Tom — Chuck and Llarry floated in from JimRob’s Madhouse of Unearned Exceptionalism. Over there, they don’t believe that Liberals could ever have corporate jobs or military careers.

In fact, they can’t accept that, for the same reason that no one can ever leave Brigadoon.

The whole strategy of the teabegger[sic] enablers is to get willfully ignorant saps like you to buy into that bullshit notion. They are doing everything in their power to keep from paying taxes, we’ve been over this already so it should be fresh.

Tell you what: Find me a quote from a “teabegger” who says that nobody should pay any taxes whatsoever.

Should be easy for you.

By your own admission, corporations are lobbying to pay as little as possible,

Dear Tom, I’m so sorry he beat it out of you!

as little as possible, which still qualifies as Warren’s “hunk.”

I think Lllarry secretly wishes to qualify as Warren’s “hunk.” Ohh, the soldier doth protest too much!

Oops, I forgot. Not a soldier. Just some mook who likes to invoke OUR TROOPS when convenient, while tucked safely away in his rec room.

oh Hummerboy, that IQ is tripping you up again.  These comments are hilarious, and I’m still amused.  If you think Strap1onus has “credentials”, I’ll stick around a bit longer for a few more laughs before I get tired of it.

@Humboldt: but I am the House Bunny*, so he’s got something right at last.

*as long as that means cuddly, decorative, and not something dark, sick, and Urban Dictionary, in which case we are all the House Bunny.

Llllaaarry it’s not the size of government that’s the problem, it’s the fact that lawmakers can be persuaded to do favors for their corporate donors in the first place.

The influence of government can’t be reduced, it’s how we run our fucking society, is it that hard to understand? This country has flourished when government agencies have been able to regulate, to ensure that one greedy asshole doesn’t fuck up the whole shebang for everyone else.

This nation was at its most productive when government was large, strong and equipped to ensure that millions of vets could get a college education, ensure that when they got a job they weren’t exploited, that when they wanted a bank loan for a house to raise a family the loan was backed by the full faith of our collective strength and wealth.

You’re starting to ramble, Lllllarry, and it’s not pretty.

One would have to possess the ability comprehend first and foremost.

I’m genuinely amazed. I’ve never been to a lefty blog before. I’ve got my problems with righties, but the absolute worst knee-jerk social-con on Free Republic does a far better job of defending his positions than these clowns.

The utter superficiality is breathtaking. These are people who haven’t given a moment’s serious thought to anything in years. They’re just like tape recorders, spooling out third-hand ideas.

Perpetually Misunderstood Larry -

They’re not just lobbying to pay as little as possible, they’re winning.

I’m genuinely amazed. I’ve never been to a lefty blog before. I’ve got my problems with righties, but the absolute worst knee-jerk social-con on Free Republic does a far better job of defending his positions than these clowns.

The utter superficiality is breathtaking. These are people who haven’t given a moment’s serious thought to anything in years. They’re just like tape recorders, spooling out third-hand ideas.

Pretty much sums up why I stopped debating with them and just started poking fun at them, and they still keep replying - lol.

This country has flourished when government agencies have been able to regulate, to ensure that one greedy asshole doesn’t fuck up the whole shebang for everyone else.

Name some of the new regulations instituted under Obama that have led to flourishing.

Pretty much sums up why I stopped debating with them and just started poking fun at them, and they still keep replying - lol.

We like the hit-count, Chuck.

PS: You should never feel ashamed about never having had a real job. I was just lucky I had a science background from a good school.

the 50 percent of the country that doesn’t pay federal income taxes.

Ooooooh, another one of my favorite tropes. Say, Llllaaaarrry, I have been getting money back in taxes from the govt since I was 16. That’s right, I get those taxes removed from my check and when I file my return they give me money back! Fucking amazing!

But as for the free ride, well, Llllaaarrry, you forget that I also pay a whole slew of taxes that are also deducted from my paycheck or enforced at the cash register, and guess what? I’m glad to do it as a responsible citizen and a patriotic American. Because I klnow that by paying my FAIR share I am doing my part ensure thgis great nation continues to grow.

You, on the other hand, are just a hateful bigot, willing to use false information, blatant untruths and plain old made-up right wing bullshit in an attempt to slur we true-blue Americans. There’s your free ride, bucko.

Tell you what: Find me a quote from a “teabegger” who says that nobody should pay any taxes whatsoever.

Michele Bachmann, who is desperate to be the bagger in the Palin jagoff brigade is on recored stating clearly that she would get rid of all corporate income taxes. In fact, that Queen of Quitting, ol Grifting Bull Palin herself said the exact same thing at the sad little rally in Iowa. Need some more? How about Rand “black people can’t eat here” Paul, he’s on recoprd as well. So that’s three teabagging asshats, want some more?

Pretty much sums up why I stopped debating with them and just started poking fun at them, and they still keep replying - lol.

Says little Johnny Flag Fucker.

Neither of you two luminous intelligences seem to have noticed where you are:

YOU ARE AT A BLOG CALLED RUMPROAST.

It is populated by some who are experts in robotics, thereby enabling them to recognize mechanical NewsMaxbots, some who are forces of nature who once wore a uniform neither of you ever buttoned yourselves into, and some who try to provide unserious material for the amusement of the others.

It’s been amusing Roasting your Serious, Freeping, pilonidal Rumps.

Here’s my final offer:

No taxes, no regulations, low wages and a friendly military junta. If we make America more like The Congo, maybe Chuck and Llarry won’t shoot us with all their guns and bullets.

Mr. Polly has expressed an interest in his email, so I’m going to have to say good-bye to Chuck and Larry, but have a Roasty night, all!

I’m going to have a spoonful of Victoryberry jam on top of Tea Party Downgrade toast, in honor of Chuck and Larry, Serious Flagwrapped Civilians. Cheerie-bye!

...and then they were gone, like a fart in the wind.

Jeepers, Creepers, Where’d We Get These Freepers?

Dang, guess they are gone.  Too bad, I was waiting on the sidelines with garbage bags to haul out their remains.

The wealthy never got where they were through hard work. Hard work is digging a ditch, picking fruit, or cleaning sewers. No, those who have wealth for the most part got it through seed money, trusts, or quite simply “smart work.”
Without depreciating the skill of smart work, anyone who uses his or her native talent deserves the fruit of their labors ... with one exception: the duty to pay their share of supporting a nation where they can excel without a bullet in the head.
That nation is the United States of America. Do well, do good, get the dream ... no bullets. And in this regard all Americans need to pay their share. Their share of the bullet shield. Our Constitution.
Many say, tax every American equally, kinda like, “Each, according to his share; each according to the basic need. Easy, problem solved.

@D Ross — If you post that same comment on a few more blogs, Don, I think you get a discount at Denny’s.

Hey Warren.  How much in tax money does your employer Harvard University pay?  The factories and their owners are paying enough and far more than their “fare” share.  It is time for the tax takers to pay the piper.  Also what do you know about factories?  Have you ever been inside one?

wrong76

Tim, one Bernie Gordon, who you should be familiar with if you aren’t, might beg to differ:

Still later in life, Bernie gave all his company shares to the Bernard M. Gordon Charitable Remainder UniTrust, which sells the shares and gives away the money. When it runs dry it will have dispersed about 300 million, mainly to institutions. Concerning this action, Bernie said:

“I established the trust because as I got old, I wanted to live long enough to see some of this money given away to good causes.”

...
About his altruism, Bernie said::“My primary motivation, even from the beginning, was never self-serving. I derive satisfaction from doing something that is useful for other people. I was brought up that way, and I was trained that way.”

YAFB,

Taxes are not charity.  Warren is not asking industry to donate to charity.  No one is claiming that one should not pay taxes. 

Futhermore Bernie Gordon is a factory owner, the type that Warren is trying to demonize.

Do you think raising taxes on industry that has to increasingly compete against third world labor is healthy?  If industry leaves who is left to pay for the government?

Oh, and YAFB as you know I am well aware who Bernie Gordon is. 

What branch of the government do you work for?

Tim, you really need to calm down a minute, quit kneejerking, and re-watch the Warren clip. She’s not “demonizing” anyone, just restating some societal parameters that apparently have wide resonance for some, including with some wealthy business owners, and are like a red rag to a bull to others. You can look upthread for discussion of those who aren’t pulling their weight in this way, which is more to the point.

If she demonizes anything, it’s greed and the attitude that wealthy individuals can just say “screw you” to the rest of society. If you don’t subscribe to that selfish view, then she’s not criticizing you, and she’s not criticizing the likes of Bernie Gordon:

... Keep a big hunk of it.

But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

As for the distinction between taxes and charity, we can argue about how some of these rich philanthropists got to amass such wealth—a number by evading or avoiding taxes—and how they get to choose the time and targets of their philanthropy, unlike others who just have to pay up and can’t afford slippery accountants etc. But the argument for disbursing that wealth as seed money for the future hasn’t been rebutted by your or anyone else’s comments.

What branch of the government do you work for?

Oh, and since you ask, I’ve been a freelance editor for the last twenty-plus years.

I am calm, unlike Elizabeth Warren’s rant and I am not giving a knee jerk answer.

How much is enough to raise taxes on industry?  No one here has answered that.  Simply dispersing money to the government does not guarantee that the seed will bear fruit.  Countless government programs simply burn money with no benefit to society what so ever.

Industry and the taxpayers of this state are not the reason the government is in this fiscal mess. 

Industry and the taxpayers are paying forward and then some.  The question is how much more do you wish to take from them?  Answer that.

I am calm, unlike Elizabeth Warren’s rant

If you think that was a “rant,” you obviously live a very sheltered life indeed.

But it seems to have hit a nerve.

And Tim, since I get paid by the hour and better go do some work to try to keep the wolf away from my own door, I’ll outsource a comment to the lovely maha, who gets it even if you don’t (yet?) (oh, and though she addresses “Americans,” it’s far from solely an American problem):

Part of our problem is that too many Americans have bought an ideology about what’s supposed to be good for business that looks at business in a vacuum, as if all the other parts of the system — such as sound infrastructure, an educated and healthy workforce, and lots of consumers with disposable income — don’t matter. In fact, the thinking is that we have to sacrifice those things in order to pump more money directly into business. This is insane.

As long as business executives get lots and lots of untaxed money, they will grow jobs and make the economy better, they say. The fact that business is losing customers because the working middle class is being squeezed out of existence doesn’t seem to register. And it doesn’t seem to register with business owners, either.

So you’ve got Rick Perry thumping his chest and saying he grew jobs in Texas by lowering taxes, cutting health care spending, and shredding environmental and consumer protection to lure business from other states. So how is that race to the bottom supposed to work nationally? Are we going to cut wages and working conditions even more to lure business from India?

And even then, right now Texas has its highest unemployment rate in 25 years. Way to go, Perry.

The question is how much more do you wish to take from them?  Answer that.

How about we go back to the tax rates in force under the last Democratic president who was tasked with cleaning up a spendthrift Republican president’s mess, i.e., Clinton-era tax rates? Corporations were doing fine back then.

Hell, corporations are doing fine now—it’s the rest of us who are stuck with GWB’s unpaid bill for two wars, top-heavy tax cuts and a new unfunded Medicare entitlement program who are looking a little peaked. It never ceases to amaze me that Republicans call themselves “fiscal conservatives” with a straight face.

Simply dispersing money to the government does not guarantee that the seed will bear fruit.

...disbursing…

and it is amazing how many ways cons will find to sigh and intone “you can’t fix this problem just by throwing money at it” - and to be fair, the problem THEY want to solve (that rich people aren’t rich enough), CAN be solved in just such a way.

Countless government programs simply burn money with no benefit to society what so ever.

Name twenty.

Betty “How about we go back to the tax rates in force under the last Democratic president who was tasked with cleaning up a spendthrift Republican president’s mess, i.e., Clinton-era tax rates? Corporations were doing fine back then.”

Can we go back to the same size of government under Clinton too? Then we might have a deal.

Why did Obama extend the “Bush” tax cuts?  Oh, and when talking about undfunded government obligations don’t forget government employee defined pensions and retirement health plans.

And I am an agreement with Elizabeth Warren on lobbyist and PACs.  However she left out lobbyist like the MTA, AFT, Tort lawyer’s ect…

...and then they were gone, like a fart in the wind.

Well, you all were pretty uncivil. What with your mockery and facts and contradictions and calling a douchenozzle a douchenozzle and stuff.

Like frost to the orchid bloom is a lack of respect to the Freeper. No wonder the poor dears have gone home to have mommy kiss the owies you inflicted.

Xecky Gilchrist

“Name twenty”

A total of 42 quasi-public agencies operate on the state or regional level in Massachusetts, ranging in size from more than 6,000 employees to only six.

And that is just in our state.

Why did Obama extend the “Bush” tax cuts?

I think there may be a Wikipedia article, see “Blackmail.” Raising taxes on the middle class when it suits their purposes is just fine with Republicans.

Hell, you might even come up with a snappy term for it, like—oh, I dunno—class warfare?

A total of 42 quasi-public agencies operate on the state or regional level in Massachusetts, ranging in size from more than 6,000 employees to only six.

OK, that’s a reply in quantitative terms, but Xecky asked you to name them. Then you can set about trying to prove your premise:

Countless government programs simply burn money with no benefit to society what so ever.

Why did Obama extend the “Bush” tax cuts?

Because it was the only way he could get the Republicans to extend unemployment benefits. And why the scare quotes around “Bush”? They’re his tax cuts. “Conservatives” should be proud to own them, no?

Regarding the size and reach of government, I know it’s a common “conservative” fantasy that Obama enacted scads of burdensome new regulations and raised taxes, but alas, reality disagrees.

Betty,

They’re now the Obama tax cuts.  Maybe the President will extend the tax cuts again.

Xecky asked for 20 and I gave her 42.

Alrighty then—the Obama tax cuts, which Obama said he would like to rescind for folks making a quarter mill a year. Still, the point is, when Bush enacted the tax cuts that you now insist on calling the Obama tax cuts, it created a gaping revenue hole, as did the completely unnecessary and expensive Iraq War Bush lied us into waging, as did the Medicare Part D plan Bush championed without funding.

As for your reply to Xecky, your typing the number “42” hardly counts as naming wasteful government programs. Not that I doubt wasteful government programs exist, mind you, and they should be rooted out when found. But you haven’t named a single one.

Xecky asked for 20 and I gave her 42.

You simply gave a number you plucked from somewhere for “quasi-public agencies” in Massachusetts.

Xecky asked for 20 names from among these “Countless government programs” that you claim “simply burn money with no benefit to society what so ever.”

In case you don’t realize it, that’s no proof of your assertion that “Countless government programs simply burn money with no benefit to society what so ever.” Unless you’re going to claim that no “quasi-public agencies” ever do anything but “simply burn money” and that none of them benefit society whatsoever, in which case you’re going to have your work cut out proving it.

represented in the examples of 30 government waste below:

The federal government made at least $72 billion in improper payments in 2008.[1]
Washington spends $92 billion on corporate welfare (excluding TARP) versus $71 billion on homeland security.[2]
Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties.[3]
Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them—costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually—fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.[4]
The Congressional Budget Office published a “Budget Options” series identifying more than $100 billion in potential spending cuts.[5]
Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe water programs.[6]
Washington will spend $2.6 million training Chinese prostitutes to drink more responsibly on the job.[7]
A GAO audit classified nearly half of all purchases on government credit cards as improper, fraudulent, or embezzled. Examples of taxpayer-funded purchases include gambling, mortgage payments, liquor, lingerie, iPods, Xboxes, jewelry, Internet dating services, and Hawaiian vacations. In one extraordinary example, the Postal Service spent $13,500 on one dinner at a Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse, including “over 200 appetizers and over $3,000 of alcohol, including more than 40 bottles of wine costing more than $50 each and brand-name liquor such as Courvoisier, Belvedere and Johnny Walker Gold.” The 81 guests consumed an average of $167 worth of food and drink apiece.[8]
Federal agencies are delinquent on nearly 20 percent of employee travel charge cards, costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars annually.[9]
The Securities and Exchange Commission spent $3.9 million rearranging desks and offices at its Washington, D.C., headquarters.[10]
The Pentagon recently spent $998,798 shipping two 19-cent washers from South Carolina to Texas and $293,451 sending an 89-cent washer from South Carolina to Florida.[11]
Over half of all farm subsidies go to commercial farms, which report average household incomes of $200,000.[12]
Health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $60 billion annually.[13]
A GAO audit found that 95 Pentagon weapons systems suffered from a combined $295 billion in cost overruns.[14]
The refusal of many federal employees to fly coach costs taxpayers $146 million annually in flight upgrades.[15]
Washington will spend $126 million in 2009 to enhance the Kennedy family legacy in Massachusetts. Additionally, Senator John Kerry (D-MA) diverted $20 million from the 2010 defense budget to subsidize a new Edward M. Kennedy Institute.[16]
Federal investigators have launched more than 20 criminal fraud investigations related to the TARP financial bailout.[17]
Despite trillion-dollar deficits, last year’s 10,160 earmarks included $200,000 for a tattoo removal program in Mission Hills, California; $190,000 for the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody, Wyoming; and $75,000 for the Totally Teen Zone in Albany, Georgia.[18]
The federal government owns more than 50,000 vacant homes.[19]
The Federal Communications Commission spent $350,000 to sponsor NASCAR driver David Gilliland.[20]
Members of Congress have spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars supplying their offices with popcorn machines, plasma televisions, DVD equipment, ionic air fresheners, camcorders, and signature machines—plus $24,730 leasing a Lexus, $1,434 on a digital camera, and $84,000 on personalized calendars.[21]
More than $13 billion in Iraq aid has been classified as wasted or stolen. Another $7.8 billion cannot be accounted for.[22]
Fraud related to Hurricane Katrina spending is estimated to top $2 billion. In addition, debit cards provided to hurricane victims were used to pay for Caribbean vacations, NFL tickets, Dom Perignon champagne, “Girls Gone Wild” videos, and at least one sex change operation.[23]
Auditors discovered that 900,000 of the 2.5 million recipients of emergency Katrina assistance provided false names, addresses, or Social Security numbers or submitted multiple applications.[24]
Congress recently gave Alaska Airlines $500,000 to paint a Chinook salmon on a Boeing 737.[25]
The Transportation Department will subsidize up to $2,000 per flight for direct flights between Washington, D.C., and the small hometown of Congressman Hal Rogers (R-KY)—but only on Monday mornings and Friday evenings, when lawmakers, staff, and lobbyists usually fly. Rogers is a member of the Appropriations Committee, which writes the Transportation Department’s budget.[26]
Washington has spent $3 billion re-sanding beaches—even as this new sand washes back into the ocean.[27]
A Department of Agriculture report concedes that much of the $2.5 billion in “stimulus” funding for broadband Internet will be wasted.[28]
The Defense Department wasted $100 million on unused flight tickets and never bothered to collect refunds even though the tickets were refundable.[29]
Washington spends $60,000 per hour shooting Air Force One photo-ops in front of national landmarks.[30]

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/omb/expec tmore/rating/notperform.html

Comment by Tim on 09/22/11 at 11:08 AM

Here is 10 more….

Over one recent 18-month period, Air Force and Navy personnel used government-funded credit cards to charge at least $102,400 on admission to entertainment events, $48,250 on gambling, $69,300 on cruises, and $73,950 on exotic dance clubs and prostitutes.[31]
Members of Congress are set to pay themselves $90 million to increase their franked mailings for the 2010 election year.[32]
Congress has ignored efficiency recommendations from the Department of Health and Human Services that would save $9 billion annually.[33]
Taxpayers are funding paintings of high-ranking government officials at a cost of up to $50,000 apiece.[34]
The state of Washington sent $1 food stamp checks to 250,000 households in order to raise state caseload figures and trigger $43 million in additional federal funds.[35]
Suburban families are receiving large farm subsidies for the grass in their backyards—subsidies that many of these families never requested and do not want. [36]
Congress appropriated $20 million for “commemoration of success” celebrations related to Iraq and Afghanistan.[37]
Homeland Security employee purchases include 63-inch plasma TVs, iPods, and $230 for a beer brewing kit.[38]
Two drafting errors in the 2005 Deficit Reduction Act resulted in a $2 billion taxpayer cost.[39]
North Ridgeville, Ohio, received $800,000 in “stimulus” funds for a project that its mayor described as “a long way from the top priority.”[40]
The National Institutes of Health spends $1.3 million per month to rent a lab that it cannot use.[41]
Congress recently spent $2.4 billion on 10 new jets that the Pentagon insists it does not need and will not use.[42]
Lawmakers diverted $13 million from Hurricane Katrina relief spending to build a museum celebrating the Army Corps of Engineers—the agency partially responsible for the failed levees that flooded New Orleans.[43]
Medicare officials recently mailed $50 million in erroneous refunds to 230,000 Medicare recipients.[44]
Audits showed $34 billion worth of Department of Homeland Security contracts contained significant waste, fraud, and abuse.[45]
Washington recently spent $1.8 million to help build a private golf course in Atlanta, Georgia.[46]
The Advanced Technology Program spends $150 million annually subsidizing private businesses; 40 percent of this funding goes to Fortune 500 companies.[47]
Congressional investigators were able to receive $55,000 in federal student loan funding for a fictional college they created to test the Department of Education.[48]
The Conservation Reserve program pays farmers $2 billion annually not to farm their land.[49]
The Commerce Department has lost 1,137 computers since 2001, many containing Americans’ personal data.[50]

Well, finally. And thanks, but a link will do rather than just pasting vast screeds in comment after comment.

The federal government made at least $72 billion in improper payments in 2008.[1]

Good grief. Whoever was in charge at the time must have been pretty useless. Or is that somehow an “Obama” scandal?

Oh, and if you copy and paste, it’s considered good etiquette to give a source: http://hoguenews.com/?p=4834

Nice independent source you got there. From an article by a Republican candidate published in October 2009, and hence relying variously on claims and evidence based on the state of affairs sometimes considerably before then.

Maybe if the Republicans hadn’t been so obstructive of appointees in various oversight departments and generally trying to scupper every initiative in their quest to sacrifice the country to put him out of a job, Obama’d have been further along in his commitment to root out government waste.

@YAFB — I think Hogue stole his post from the Heritage Foundation.

It was oft-swiped back in the day.

Rush is going after the Warren clip right now. That’s a good sign.

@YAFB — I think Hogue stole his post from the Heritage Foundation.

Then Hogue is obviously a low-down freeloading thief, and the Heritage Foundation should sue him for everything he’s got.

Nice spot, BTW. ;O)

Rush is going after the Warren clip right now. That’s a good sign.

But will he cite a link to us?!

YAFB,

I’m not like you.  I blame both politcal parties for the fiscal problems in this country.  In this state I blame Republicans a little less since their numbers are so small. 

Nor do I blame factory owners.

wrong link by the way.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2009/10/50- Examples-of-Government-Waste

I could get other reports but I think you get the point.

I was trying to find more information on those 42 quasi-public state agencies but they seem to have done a very good job of staying under the radar.  Marian Walsh excepted.

Comment by Tim on 09/22/11 at 11:28 AM

Seriously, this is why we shouldn’t feed the trolls. lol

Stand by, Brit. You just got linked by the Weekly Standard.

I was trying to find more information on those 42 quasi-public state agencies but they seem to have done a very good job of staying under the radar. 

Ah yes, the guilty until proven innocent approach. So I guess you’ll have to abandon one plank of the claim that kicked this exchange off.

Only a fool or a naif would insist that there is no waste—indeed graft—in government. I don’t see anyone here doing that. To quote Betty:

Not that I doubt wasteful government programs exist, mind you, and they should be rooted out when found.

But your extremely broadbrush assertion needed nailing down. And even the Heritage Foundation in that very (somewhat dated) article allows that some of those claims it made are arguable.

And no, I don’t see waste and graft as an entirely partisan issue. The pork barrel etc. are not uniquely American.

But it’s a long stretch from citing a number of sketchily cherrypicked examples that none of us will have the time to investigate properly to proving that “Countless government programs simply burn money with no benefit to society what so ever.” Not least because even where there is verifiable waste in those examples you cite above, that doesn’t negate any benefits to society those same organizations may have brought.

Seriously, this is why we shouldn’t feed the trolls. lol

Oh, I don’t know that I’d class Tim as a troll. If all the trolls we got here actually tried to argue in good faith, as I think he’s doing, then we might have more productive discussions. We’d probably never get anything else done but what the hey.

Stand by, Brit. You just got linked by the Weekly Standard.

Christ. I’ll go pour another bucket of ice water over the server!

Stand by, Brit. You just got linked by the Weekly Standard.

Holy Christ. Time to rip out the carpets and lay down the laminate. Just when we’d nearly aired the place out from the Freepers! ;-)

Seriously, this is why we shouldn’t feed the trolls.

I wouldn’t call Tim a troll—he’s behaved himself for the most part. Chuckles and Multiple-L Larry? Definitely trolls! ;-)

Jinx, Brit! Pinch, poke, you owe me a coke!

Jinx, Brit! Pinch, poke, you owe me a coke!

Heh. I think I’ll put mine aside for the GOP debate!

*goes back to frikkin work and tries not to think too much about how silly the world is*

Back to the factory for me.  Someone has to pay for the government graft.

YAFB, thanks for pushing me on the 42 quas-pulbic state agencies issue.  It will give something to read about tonight.  It is amazing how big this government is.  And this is just our state.  It is like opening a can of worms once you dig into it.

Stand by, Brit. You just got linked by the Weekly Standard.

Cripes, it’ll be a British invasion, complete with stray Us all over the place!

(A question: I don’t log in to my account here from work. How is it that I must force-feed my comments to get them in but it nums up the contributions from the fReepers? Is this thing run by Faux News or somethin’?)

It is amazing how big this government is.  And this is just our state.  It is like opening a can of worms once you dig into it.

Indeed, in general, things are much more complicated than conservative talking points account for. I’m guessing you’re still implying that big = bad, no matter what, but thanks for recognizing that there is more to the situation than you’d thought. ...I think.

I wonder how much concern Tim has about waste and fraud in the military.

Comment by Oblomova on 09/22/11 at 02:38 PM
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