I half wonder whether Raven is a GOP concern troll, trying to play the irritatingly-self-righteous faux-liberal in an attempt to make everyone ignore the NDAA thing. ‘Cause after reading his “Whyyy aren’t you talking about what IIIIII want you to doooooooo?” schtick on other blogs, I gotta admit, I’d be just fine with him getting thrown into the gulag…

Seriously.  I’ve been away from the Pc for a few days (work doesn’t involve PC access for me) and now I see that all my stomping grounds have been invaded by this Raven thing. 

Hey Rav, a good many of us do pay attention to this stuff, and actually contacted ALL their elected reps about it, just like I did!  Why, just like I do on oh so many issues! 

Most of my blog activities are a nice respite from the all-politics, all-earnest, all the time crap that quite frankly has earned me a lifetime of antidepressant use and isn’t going to change a fucking thing other than how much I enjoy my remaining days on earth, so self-righteous concern trolls can ever so kindly fuck off and go find someone/place else to dump their superior morality and guilt.

The NDAA does authorize indefinite detention without trial for concern trolls, anywhere on the globe.  So there’s the upside.

The downside, of course, is that this is the one area where those of us with reasonable expectations about Obama (i.e., people who thought he would be more or less the “post-partisan” center-liberal he was in the Senate, not the Fantasy Alt-History FDR with the omnipotent Bully Magic Pony Pulpit) have been met with near-total civil liberties FAIL.  And it’s not like the the politics/ optics make sense, either—what, the GOP Clown Car is going to run against this guy as being soft on terrorism?  You would think he had earned some really-not-soft-on-terrorism points by now.

So yeah, this and Plan B, it’s been a bad stretch for anyone gambling on the “will-not-cave” card.

Well, which is it?  Did Shirley Jackson write the NDAA or did she write the Bill of Rights?  This is very confusing.

it’s been a bad stretch for anyone gambling on the “will-not-cave” card

Well, that’s your problem right there, not assuming the absolute worst about everything all the time. I’m more of a glass-half-broken-and-jutting-out-of-my-throat kinda guy m’self. And yet I’m still kind of amazed by this crew’s eagerness to fold—I mean okay, Plan B, I can at least see the logic in the cravenness there, but this… I dunno, it’s like they’re doing their polling through a wormhole to 2005.

Gotta say, Perfesser Danger, the urge to respond to your comment with “and you are?” is overwhelming, but I’ve been internetting long enough to know that the people who’d get it would be outnumbered a few hundredfold by those clamoring for my head.

Captcha word: “couple64.” GEE GUESS WHAT SONG’S GONNA BE IN MY HEAD ALL DAY NOW.

Thank you, Mr. Mann, for your coverage of the issue, fully encased as it was in heavy sarcasm, confectioner’s sugar and blood. Both Maddow and the ACLU spokesman covered the subject well, and spelled out how destructive this legislation will be, when signed into law.

Thank you, Michael Bérubé, for your intelligent, thoughtful commentary.

And no thanks at all are due to world class crybabies Scott and StringOnAStick. Scott seems to have a McArdle-level innumeracy problem, having sniveled over at alicublog that he had seen my comment at ‘several’ blogs. In fact, I posted at alicublog and here, for a grand total of two (2) comments.

And poor, poor StringOnAStick! It seems I have invaded and contaminated his whole set of intertoobz by posting a single comment on each of two whole blogs! Maybe he can get a professional to scrub out his computer, so he can safely frolic and gambol in the electronic fields once more.

These two delicate creatures have already pissed down their respective legs and wailed at length over on alicublog about my insolence and effrontery. Such an overwrought spew of emotion, so much pettiness and spite. I didn’t bother to respond over there because I didn’t want to interrupt the furious wankfest.

However, since you’ve dedicated an entire post to my outrageous trollery, I feel entitled to reply. My stars, I must be the world’s most prolific troll - one comment per post, not continuing to engage even in response to repeated personal attacks. Why, the nerve of me! I really should be in the gulag!

BTW, this isn’t the first time I’ve been name-checked in a rumproast post. StrangeAppar8us once did so graciously and, yes, appreciatively. But then, he’s a class act.

I’m lost, having been off the ‘tubes for most of the last couple of days. I’ve done my best to follow this debate and some of the resulting outrage. Here’s the current wording of the bill as far as I know, amended to counter the veto threat, with S. 1031 reaffirming existing law (the Patriot Act seems to be the most relevant in this case):

SECTION 1031 –AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE

Section 1031 authorized detention

b) COVERED PERSONS.—A covered person under this section is any person as follows: (1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks. (2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported AL-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.

(e) AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

Section 1032 REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY

(2) COVERED PERSONS.—The requirement in paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose detention is authorized under section 1031 who is determined— (A) to be a member of, or part of, AL-Qaeda or an associated force that acts in coordination with or pursuant to the direction of AL-Qaeda; and (B) to have participated in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.

Is the gripe that those suspected of al Qaeda and Taliban support etc. should not be subjected to military custody, or is it a hangover from the earlier wording that explicitly allowed for military detention of US citizens etc.?

Lookit this guy, trying to have a substantive discussion that’s pertinent to the topic at hand. We’re slapfighting, d’ya mind?

Now honestly, Raven. Using your comment as a jumping-off point for this post was the very definition of gentle ribbing; you might’ve noticed the playful tone and oh, I don’t know, the fact that I’m the butt of the joke.

And don’t get all indignant about the “troll” designation after doing the leftier-than-thou dance on a post about a lady who wrote ghost stories, for cryin’ out loud. That was troll tell #1, the claim that nobody’s covering the NDAA being #2.* You wanted to stir things up, I wanted things upstirred, we both win, don’t ruin it by acting like it ain’t what it is.

It’s gonna get real ugly over the next few months, kiddo, let’s make the narcissism of small differences fun! Implicit in that is my hope that you hang around, so consider this a request.

But FYI? Playing the “You’re no StrangeAppar8us” card with me’ll get you precisely nowhere. Funny thing about trolling—you have to stick to assertions your target doesn’t agree with wholeheartedly.

*say you see what I did there. SAY IT.

YAFB: you’ve heard that it takes a big man to say “I don’t know?” I’m like eighteen feet tall on this one.

We’re slapfighting, d’ya mind?

We’ve never been averse to that (though it’s generally focused on debagging invading trolls rather than setting about each other), I’m just trying to figure out where the beef is before I pick a side and break sweat. ;0)

BTW, having just waded through 280-plus comments on a Balloon Juice thread discussing this very issue, frisked DU where the End Of Civilization As We Know It Just Like Last Tuesday faction is in full predictable cry, and gleaned as much as I can stand to read at this time of day from a clutch of lefty blogs, I have to say THIS IS TEH WORST LIBERAL BLOG BLACKOUT EVAR!!!!

Gil, bless you for your gracious reply to the person who thought bringing up Strange in this context would earn him brownie points. Um, not so much. Really.

And to the topic at hand—I’ve been reading back and forth, off and on, for part of yesterday and today and I’m still confused, frankly, as to the long-term implications. And the short-term ones.

the person who thought bringing up Strange in this context would earn him brownie points

Not his finest moment. Besides, I think I know Strange well enough to say in his absence that there’s every chance he’d have been near the head of the queue on this thread wielding a trollpaddle.

And frankly, I have no reason to think that there isn’t a good portion of the Our Leftie Lady of Perpetual Dissatisfaction that would STILL blame Obama, rather than the Senate, if he vetoed the NDAA and it was promptly overridden. They still think he had the power to get Blue Dogs and Lieberman to vote for a healthcare bill with a public option, after all.

And yes, though I don’t know Strange as well as you do, I can easily see him dispensing with Raven, here, whose observation was about as Klassy as saying “My REAL dad would buy me the new iPad for Christmas! You suck!”

Gil,

i had composed a substantial response to your comment, when either my browser or the internet gods decided to obliterate it. Then I saw the subsequent comments, and realized there was no reason to bother with substance.

Is it possible for the participants here to acknowledge the cognitive dissonance of accusing me of being “leftier-than-thou” in the same thread where I’m accused of being a diabolical Republican operative? Yeah, I didn’t think so.

Oh, YAFB? The 280 comment Balloon Juice thread you reference didn’t exist when I made my initial, single, comment on Gil’s post. But let’s not let facts get in the way. I’m sure you won’t.

In the interests of the reality-based community, I do feel obligated to point out that in the history of the internet there has never been a troll who posted one comment to a thread and then bowed out. Never. Maybe i have inadvertently pioneered a whole new form of trolling.

I mentioned Strange, and the fact that months ago he used information that I had provided in a post, and thoughtfully acknowledged the source, to point out the fatuousness of the ‘GOP troll’ accusation.

And yet YAFB and Oblamova know Strange so well that they are able to confidently speak for him on this increasingly ludicrous thread. Team Telepath FTW.

Freeform projection and baseless accusations - so glad I stopped by.

And, finally, Gil:

Implicit in that is my hope that you hang around, so consider this a request.

Would that be as the fiendish Karl Rove surrogate or the Dirty Fucking Hippy? Just curious.

And yet YAFB and Oblamova know Strange so well that they are able to confidently speak for him on this increasingly ludicrous thread. Team Telepath FTW.

Somebody want to put a fork in this (spelling-impaired) twatwaffle?

If you find the environs “ludicrous,” you can always fuck off.

And the point you miss, O-Sad-Pathetic-Waste-Of-Your-Mother’s-Birth-Pangs, is that Strange is not currently reading this blog or chiming in with comments, because he is FIGHTING A LIFE-CHANGING MOTHERFUCKING CONDITION!!! That you would opportunistically swoop in when he is not around to say “yea” or “nay” to your current self-serving narcissistic bullshit pretty much tells me all I need to know about you.

The fire is that way. Go die in it. (P.S.—This is me being polite. Next time, I get nasty.)

And if one internet commmenter half-wondering if you’re a GOP troll sends you into the vapors, you seriously lack the testicularity for a real fight.

Oh Noez, another “cave”

I am fully aware of Strange’s condition.

Oblamova, you and YAFB are the only ones who have opportunistically claimed to speak for him. I did no such thing.

And, as far as I can tell,  nothing was misspelled in my post. Confidently is spelled ‘confidently’ and ludicrous is, in fact, spelled ‘ludicrous’. My post did contain a lower case i that should have been capitalized. Shocking!

Please, don’t hesitate to get nasty. Your feeble attempts at civil discourse don’t rise to the level of a dim schoolyard mouthbreathing bully.

I don’t suffer from ‘the vapors’. Apparently, you you are inhaling some sort of vapor that renders you incapable of basic reading comprehension or appropriate shame.

OMG! I finally realized my unforgivable spelling mistake: Oblamova is really Oblomova. Heavens forfend!

And I, clearly, am the narcissist here. Nothing on earth is more important than the spelling of a screen name. I must be sent to the gulag immediately!

Being sentient, I noticed I duplicated the word “you” in my previous post. My humblest apologies, since accurate grammar and spelling apparently trump paranoid delusions and character assassination on this site.

On the other hand, immediately after smugly scolding me on my spelling, Oblomova threw “commmenter” into the mix. WINNING!!!

I challenge any sober and competent reader to peruse this thread and come to the conclusion that I for one second deigned to speak for StrangeAppar8us. YAFB and Oblomova clearly did exactly that. (Ooh, so offensive!)

And, Obie, if you are not actually short bus ‘special’, you might comprehend that I can’t simultaneously be a “GOP troll” and an uber-lefty hippy. Or maybe, you need a special ed teacher to break that down for you. Good luck with behavioral therapy. Or maybe you can just go die in a fire, civilly. Happy Holidays!

Oh god.

Raven, if you don’t get why posting one of those mega-annoying and utterly useless “why aren’t you writing about…?” comments on snarky blogs like alicublog and a blog named RUMPROAST (read that again ... RUMPROAST) will get you a face full of THWUMP, there is absolutely no hope for you. Honestly, gil mann went easy on you. Be thankful.

That said, let’s all just let go of the Strange chatter right now related to this debacle. I don’t want any “but ... but ... buts.” Now. Stop. Everyone’s emotions are way too raw to go there right now.

Thank you.

As a rule, I find that anybody whose comments sound good read in the Simpsons Comic Book Guy’s voice is either a troll or at the least a gnomish assortment of irritating blog behaviors.

Aroint thee, ennervating phantasm!

Would that be as the fiendish Karl Rove surrogate or the Dirty Fucking Hippy? Just curious.

Oh, the latter, if you were the former I’d have smelled it from a mile off. And I like how you bristle at goodwill and try to turn it sour—I do that too!

BTW, if you wanna rewrite that comment that got swallowed but don’t feel like engaging publically, my screen name links to my e-mail. Not sure what the point would be but I am mindful of the posse gap here.

See?  Like I said, being over-earnest and excessively righteous about it, especially on a snark blog, is just plain annoying, and Raven returned to prove that in spades.

Yeah, this thread is brimming with the goodwill. I’ll just go die in the goodwill fire burning in the goodwill gulag. While I’m being vigorously arointed in the most warm-hearted and welcoming way.

Oh, Mrs. Polly, all you really need to say to me is “Thank you,” since you used the Westbrook Pegler info you got from me without so much as a hat tip. You’re welcome!

Gil, Don’t worry. I get that you were demonstrating goodwill. It wasn’t totally drowned out by the screams of the monkey house. Right now I need to wash the venom, spittle and splattered urine of the resident rumproast pants-wetters out of my computer and air out the fetid fumes.

It’s gonna get real ugly over the next few months, kiddo

Look around. You’re soaking in it.

Oh, and please do give me a heads up if Oblomova ever decides to “get nasty” or bring the “real fight”. He/she sounds like a real tough customer, what with the intrepid typing of vague but dire threats on the keyboard. I’m quaking.

Poor Raven. Stuck in “Such bad food—such small portions” territory.

Rave, if you don’t see how you brought your current coated-in-fluids state upon yourself, you might want to reassess your relationship to preview buttons. You’ve got a nasty habit of giving as good as you get and then acting like you cried uncle at some point.

I’m taking responsibility for the Strange-related ugliness, though. I took what you said as a cheap shot and then that’s the prism it got seen through, but on a closer reading I suspect you were using a slag against me as an excuse to brag about being noticed by him, not the other way around.

So that’s on me. The rest, well, if you can’t handle the consequences of leading with your chin, you probably shouldn’t be wearing that Mac Tonight mask.

You know, Raven, I actually engaged with the issues above, including your unfounded claim of a liberal blog “blackout,” which all your frothy blether hasn’t sidestepped (one notable thing about this blog is we usually try not to clamber behind issues till we know WTF the score is, not what the outrage du jour is). You’ve done fuck all in this thread, and since my first contribution, except throw around petty gratuitous insults. And I don’t give a damn who you think “started it.” Grow the fuck up. If you can’t take it, maybe it’s not a good idea to dish it out so liberally—in a passive-aggressive manner, or overtly, as is latterly the case.

Perhaps you haven’t engaged on the issues because you can see from the revised bill wording I quoted that one plank of your declared worries—your announcement of the death of the Bill of Rights—is apparently unfounded preemptive hyperbole. Are there other areas of concern? Obviously, but you’ve done nothing to expound or explain them. In the time it took you to compose three successive vitriolic dead-of-night diatribes—while accusing others of not being “sober”!—plus your latest offering, which derives from who knows where, you would have had plenty of time and keystrokes to address them if they were really that much of a concern to you.

As for the “troll” tag, well, if it wasn’t deserved at the beginning of this thread ... Since you’ve declared we’re not worth engaging with substantively, why are you here? Isn’t there some other corner of the Internet that needs alerting to this threat to the Constitution?

This tedious grackle seems to believe that he alone was privy to the knowledge that the North Starling quoted Pegler at the convention. He also seems to have a similar talent for cultivating grievances, though his are less likely to fetch a good price. That’s why I’m in favor of subsidies for small-time grievance farmers, just to level the field.

What a tasteless and tacky asshole. I’m sorry I even read this thread.

However, it does inspire me to shoot Strange a few more scoots.

My next band will be called Tedious Grackle. Thx!