That is one of the most nauseatingly mean and immature things I’ve ever seen on the web.  She could sue him for that, right?  Someone should mail her the post since he was nice enough to provide easy access to her address.

Did you send this to any female bloggers?

Could she sue?  He linked to a record on another site, and though his point seemed to be that she was a bisexual drunk most of the words he used were complimentary (tongue-in-cheek probably, but you can’t prove that and he has already claimed he was being sincere).  I agree that he was being an a-hole but he couched it in terms that make it difficult to win a lawsuit.

Not being a lawyer, I don’t know. But when you identify her as being a “bisexual drunk” and recommend that people “look her up” and link to a document that has what may be her current address on it (and her full name and profession), well, you’re skirting pretty close to the red zone, if not dancing right into it.

That is one deeply disturbed individual. The least they should have done is remove the link.

I need to take a shower.

Could she sue?  He linked to a record on another site, and though his point seemed to be that she was a bisexual drunk most of the words he used were complimentary (tongue-in-cheek probably, but you can’t prove that and he has already claimed he was being sincere).  I agree that he was being an a-hole but he couched it in terms that make it difficult to win a lawsuit.

I don’t mean for my remarks regarding her to be complimentary or uncomplimentary.  They are what they are.  Polymorphously perverse: compliment, or the opposite?  Things that show well in one person don’t in another.

You all are just filled with tolerance, aren’t you?  Everybody’s sick but those who agree with your prejudices and your—I can’t dignify it by “philosophy”—peculiar aesthetic.

Lawsuits, huh?  To suppress the expression of the truth.  Liberal.

You aren’t sick Dan, you’re just an asshole. And I don’t think calling someone perverse is generally recognized as a compliment.  Even among people who share your “peculiar aesthetic.”

To suppress the expression of the truth.

Jeebus. I’ve known some self-righteous assholes in my life, but this takes the cake.

Dickhead justifies his bathroom stall graffiti by calling it “truth” and plays the victim card when called on it.

So, please explain how I’ve injured this woman.  Is this how you deal with unlovely aspects of your past?  Deny?

I’m not a victim.  I’m not better than you.  Neither—and this is the essential point—are you better than me.  You don’t care about her.  You don’t care about the truth, honesty or anything but the opportunity to spew detractions about someone who disagrees with you.  Comrade.  Brother.

Try to defend yourself all you want Dan, you don’t even know the woman anymore yourself and haven’t for at least 5 years.  There was no reason to write that post other than maybe to remind everyone you really had a girlfriend once.

I think most would agree that _My ex is a promiscuous bitch with substance abuse problems and big tits - here’s her address_ is not precisely exploring your own unlovely past.

More like arranging for her unlovely future, with menaces. Really lends credibility to the idea that it was her emotional problems that broke you up.

I haven’t seen her since ‘86.  What’s your point?

She was never the same after Dan Collins left her.  She took to soliciting Boy and Girl Scouts for more than just cookies, boozing alone in bathroom stalls at the airport, kicking pet gerbils, stalking Rudy Guiliani, making love to rotten vegetables, sucking on chicken bones while in the hot tub; she even bit into Shamu’s dorsal fin at Sea World.

Her best days were in Dan’s protective arms. 

Dan Collins’ absence can turn a rose into a flame, sadly.

Dan is special, and special were her days with Dan. 

Nevermore.

My point was that when you said “I know her well enough to know that she will interpret this as the psychological hand up that I intend for it to be”  it was bullshit, because you don’t know this woman at all anymore.  People change dramatically in 20 years and it seems unlikely that you posted that as a “psychological hand up” to someone who has long since forgotten you.  If you wanted to wish her well and be supportive you could have sent her a letter or email like a normal concerned person would instead of airing her dirty laundry on a political blog.

I think you folks are rushing to judgment here.  I have been reading Dan’s posts at Protein Wisdom for years, and though I don’t know him personally, the general tenor of his writing I think precludes the kind of nastiness you are attributing to him.

As Jeff Goldstein pointed out, Dan’s mistake was posting something like that at PW.  But try to read the original post and Dan’s defeding comments as if they were written by an ex-boyfriend who did, and still does, care for her.  It might be that the two of them had the kind of relationship wherein they found humor in such language.

I’m willing to see it that way at any rate.

Nice try, Cowboy, but Collins is the sort of mean bastard who meant exactly what he typed and is now trying to run away from it.  If it’s not calling Glen Greenwald slurs, accusing everyone in his graduate school for hating him because he wore a crucix, or just traipsing half-way around the internet to defend his indefensible cruel rants, he is one warped teddy bear maker.

Come on, Timb, I’ve certainly seen you “traipse halfway round the internet” to PW.  When you were posting comments there, I suspect that they were either motivated by deep convictions or just to stir things up, right?

How far would you “traipse” if your integrity and your honor were at stake?

Yeah, everyone at PW makes fun of Greenwald, and maybe they push it too far.  I don’t know about Dan’s being persecuted in grad school because of his Catholicism, but are you saying that’s not feasible?  I was in grad school and taught in grad school—trust me, it’s more possible than any of us would wish.

Oh, and I don’t get the teddy bear thing.

Of course you don’t get it, Cowboy, ‘cause you don’t know who you are defending.  “Everyone makes fun of Greenwald” is the same as calling Greenwald a “f*****”?  Moral equivalence, PW style.  Wow, can’t wait to see what he writes on MLK day.

As for my travels, I go where I’m needed to attack to morons, not to defend something stupid.  Had I typed something as foolish as Collins, I would apologize.  instead, he goes to wonderful new places and insults wonderful new people.  Seems odd to me, but he’s an odd fellow.

OK, Timb, in the first place, I didn’t defend PW’s, or Dan’s, assault on Greenwald.  But don’t you think he brought a lot of this on himself?  His insistence on being in the limelight, his posturing, do I think at least provide ammunition to those who oppose his views.  The “f****t thing?  Yeah, I’ve been in a university setting for so long that I’m not sure I can even trust my sensibilities as to whether that’s over the line or not.  I think a lot of what PW does is try to reestablish a line that has been grossly misplaced by the existence of PC culture—a culture that began as a relatively “harmless” (and often joked about, believe it or not) trait of “university-speak.” 

So, sometimes, it seems to me, the PW group, including Dan, crosses the line.  But I’m pretty sure it’s with a consistent and heartfelt purpose.

I respect your view of their speech, Timb.  I just don’t agree with you.

I reiterate for your benefit Cowboy: If he still cares for her and thinks she would find humor in this type of needling, why didn’t he write or call her instead of posting this on a public forum?  He hasn’t spoken to her in 20+ years, probably for good reason.  Did they have restraining orders in the mid-80s?

Dan Collins: just another idiot wingnut asshole with empathy deficit disorder.

But I’m pretty sure it’s with a consistent and heartfelt purpose.
-Cowboy

Establishing intent is the issue with liability, whether or not the injurious statement is deemed true.

Thanks for thickening the case…

Kevin, thanks for the link to Tbogg, I hadn’t been back to PW to see how rock dumb Jeff is.  Jesus, it was pretty obvious from the context that my quote he tried to belittle was 4 months old (July 31st under it should have been a tipoff if all Dan’s talk about googling me wasn’t) and posted by Dan, not me.

Shalimar, you’re welcome.

Good cripes, that was a blood bath.

Good cripes, that was a blood bath.

I prefer to think of it in these terms. Neocons are like water buoys; they just keep bobbing to the surface no matter what the ocean’s doing.